BS JOE BANGERT, ONE OF PRESIDENT KERRY'S BAND OF BROHTERS

BS BANGERT, Part of President Kerry's campaign, one of his "Band of Brothers"

A lot of the Winter Soldier testimony is made up. I think a lot of vets were sick of the war. They received no acclaim for serving, but suddenly got stature from both being "disturbed and traumatized" by the war. Suddenly they got their 15 minutes of fame by laying bare their soles about war crimes.

I have frequently heard people claiming to be Marine Vets talk about the awful times they had in "the Nam". They usually claim to be Marines, and go at length about the atrocities they were engaged in. I usually ask them what unit they served in, and they will make up some number that is not in the Marine Corps. They won't know what bases they operated out of. So only believe about 1% of what you hear.

A typical example of an individual who is slinging BS big time is this guy Bangert from the Winter Soldier Investigation. I have exerpted what he told the Winter Soldier "Investigation", and summarized it below:

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY OF BANGERTS STATEMENTS - FULL STATEMENTS BELOW

Joe Bangert enlists in 1968, and serves in VMO-6, an aviation unit that flies very small observation planes and helos. Bangert does not state his MOS (Military Occupational Specialty), but most of the enlisted men in these units were maintenance types - fix airplanes, attach bombs, fix radios, etc.

Bangert says he sees a truck load of Marines murder a bunch of children on his first day with two officers present. Then he sees bodies "crucified" on perimeter wire, apparently cut up with knives and hung on the wire.

Then he has a friend who is CIA who takes him somewhere, murders a woman with twenty shots, then cuts open her vagina, takes out her organs and skins her. The perpretrator was a former military officer, and two other field grade officers knew about it.

Then Bangert works with the pacification program in Vietnam, and travels extensively through Quang Tri Province. He sees approximately twenty deformed infants under the age of one apparently from Agent Orange.

Bangert sees journalists, specifically women journalists who were readily welcomed into the unit. There was always this whitewashing thing. Well, sometimes these people would go right past the bodies and come into our base to get a story. They were kept away from the enlisted men, away from the people who were involved. The typical thing was to take them down to the Officers Club, get them soused.

On another web page, Bangert claims to be a door gunner with two helo units. And on another page, he claims that he saw pagodas and temples with bullet holes all over Vietnam as he flew by.

BS BANGERT

Anybody who believes these tall tales is awfully gullible. BANGERT worked for a light observation squadron - very little combat. The men worked like coolies, often 16 hours a day 7 days a week, servicing planes, refueling, rearming, preparing, cleaning, maintaining. Most of them were too busy to fly a lot.

They did not get to wander off on secret CIA missions. They did not participate in the CAP program - these were separate small units who lived permanetly in villages, protecting the villages from the VC. They did not get to wander around Quang Tri looking at deformed kids.

Bangert states on his first day he sees a bunch of kids murdered on Route 1, a paved road - this the main thoroughfare through this part of Vietnam, not some remote area. Can you imagine the press coverage if this actually happended?

He says the press saw the crucified bodies, but were wooed with booze and did not report on this. Right.

COME ON - GET REAL

So how much is the rest is fabricated? Perhaps some of his BS is true. But a lot of it is him telling sea stories. He is a pathological liars or perhaps just a plain liar. BANGERT leads a rich fantasy llfe suitable for Stephen King.

AS THE SONG SAYS, LIE LIE LIE, LIE LIE LIE, LIE LIE LIE, LIE LIE LIE

Anybody who believes this tripe is an idiot. Bangert apparently really was a Marine in Vietnam, and is listed on the VMO-6 web page. I am a little disappointed in VMO-6 for not outing this guy. A lot of people actually believe this malarkey, and it makes VMO-6 look bad. So come on, VMO-6, with in. Is Bangert telling the truth? Did all this crap happen?

Here is actual testimony

My name is Joe Bangert. I'm a Philadelphia resident. I enlisted in the Marine Corps for four years in 1967. I went to Vietnam in 1968. My unit in Vietnam was Marine Observation Squadron Six with the First Marine Air Wing and my testimony will cover the slaughter of civilians, the skinning of a Vietnamese woman, the type of observing our squadron did in Vietnam and the crucifixion of Vietnamese either suspects or civilians in Vietnam.

MODERATOR. Mr. Bangert, there's an incident here where you found crucified bodies hanging on barbed wire fences and in the same incident you witnessed South Vietnamese civilians shot without provocation on Highway 1. Could you go into this and kind of see how they are related?

BANGERT. I can cover a couple of these at the same time. The first day I got to Vietnam I landed in Da Nang Air Base. From Da Nang Air Base I took a plane to Dong Ha. I got off the plane and hitchhiked on Highway 1 to my unit. I was picked up by a truckload of grunt Marines with two company grade officers, 1st Lts.; we were about 5 miles down the road, where there were some Vietnamese children at the gateway of the village and they gave the old finger gesture at us. It was understandable that they picked this up from the GIs there. They stopped the trucks--they didn't stop the truck, they slowed down a little bit, and it was just like response, the guys got up, including the lieutenants, and just blew all the kids away. There were about five or six kids blown away and then the truck just continued down the hill. That was my first day in Vietnam. As far as the crucified bodies, they weren't actually crucified with nails, but they would find VCs or something (I never got the story on them) but, anyway, they were human beings, obviously dead, and they would take them and string them out on fences, on barbed wire fences, stripped, and sometimes they would take flesh wounds, take a knife and cut the body all over the place to make it bleed, and look gory as a reminder to the people in the village.

Also in Quang Tri City I had a friend who was working with USAID and he was also with CIA. We used to get drunk together and he used to tell me about his different trips into Laos on Air America Airlines and things. One time he asked me would I like to accompany him to watch. He was an adviser with an ARVN group and Kit Carson's. He asked me if I would like to accompany him into a village that I was familiar with to see how they act. So I went with him and when we got there the ARVNs had control of the situation. They didn't find any enemy but they found a woman with bandages. So she was questioned by six ARVNs and the way they questioned her, since she had bandages, they shot her. She was hit about twenty times. After she was questioned, and, of course, dead, this guy came over, who was a former major, been in the service for twenty years, and he got hungry again and came back over working with USAID, Aid International Development. He went over there, ripped her clothes off and took a knife and cut, from her vagina almost all the way up, just about up to her breasts and pulled her organs out, completely out of her cavity, and threw them out. Then, he stopped and knelt over and commenced to peel every bit of skin off her body and left her there as a sign for something or other and that was those instances.

MODERATOR. Okay, there were American officers present when this happened or...

BANGERT. There were two super-secret. I know they were field grade officers, who were with MACV in Quang Tri Province in the area. They knew about it.

MODERATOR. There are many different types of ways that we have heard of people being mutilated, of villagers being killed, but there is one way that affects the people afterwards. They don't physically shoot them or hurt them at the moment and this is the use of chemicals. And Mr. Bangert, I think, has a good example here where he shows twenty deformed babies resulting from Agent Orange Defoliant Spray. Could you tell us what Agent Orange is and the type of deformity that was the result?

BANGERT. I used to work with the pacification program in Vietnam and I traveled extensively through Quang Tri Province. Specifically in the area of Quang Tri City and west, Trieu Phong District, I saw approximately, during my tour, twenty deformed infants under the age of one. It never made sense to me, I thought it was congenital, or something, from venereal disease, because they had flippers and things. I didn't understand what I saw until approximately six months ago I read a report that was put out by Stamford which talked about the thalidomide content within Agent Orange and it was common knowledge that Agent Orange was sprayed in the area and we used to see it about every three to four days where I was in Quang Tri Province. If I could get back to the Vietnamese woman I saw that was mutilated so horribly by that person, it didn't really shock me because I think I talked about my first day in Vietnam.

You can check with the Marines who have been to Vietnam--your last day in the States at staging battalion at Camp Pendleton you have a little lesson and it's called the rabbit lesson, where the staff NCO comes out and he has a rabbit and he's talking to you about escape and evasion and survival in the jungle. He has this rabbit and then in a couple of seconds after just about everyone falls in love with it, not falls in love with it, but, you know, they're humane there, he cracks it in the neck, skins it, disembowels it, just like I testified that this happened to a woman--he does this to the rabbit--and then they throw the guts out into the audience. You can get anything out of that you want, but that's your last lesson you catch in the United States before you leave for Vietnam where they take that rabbit and they kill it, and they skin it, and they play with its organs as if it's trash and they throw the organs all over the place and then these guys are put on the plane the next day and sent to Vietnam.

MODERATOR. Mr. Bangert, you said you had an incident of this.

BANGERT. I guess the majority of us had been in country for about nine or ten months and this new guy came. The new guy was a lifer. A lifer was in charge of the mail. He stopped the mail for about three days because he wanted his troops to shine their shoes or something or clean up or shave or get a haircut and he stopped the mail. So someone told him if we don't get mail by noon on a specific day before midnight, that night you're going to be offered. But since he was hard and he was in the Korean War, he thought that what happened in the old Marine Corps is happening in Vietnam, he persisted and the mail wasn't gotten out and before midnight he was fragged. And the mail did come through the next day.

BANGERT. Yeah, I think that in regards to women in Vietnam, first of all, you get this feeling sometimes when you're over there that you don't even think of their sex. This is really disgusting. You don't even think of them as human beings, they're "gooks." And they're objects; they're not human, they're objects. The general rule was a Vietnamese who is dead is confirmed Viet Cong and one who is living is a Viet Cong suspect. And that's the way it was. Back to this specific instance where I talk about the disembowelment of the women--I think the person involved was a freaked out sexist, if that's what you're trying to get at. I think maybe he had problems. He had to be--he was in the Army for 20 years.

BANGERT. I testified to the fact of the bodies outside Quang Tri City. Sometimes people from the press would drive through there, specifically women journalists who were readily welcomed into the unit. There was always this whitewashing thing. Well, sometimes these people would go right past the bodies and come into our base to get a story. They were kept away from the enlisted men, away from the people who were involved. The typical thing was to take them down to the Officers Club, get them soused, get them in a flight suit, and take them out and fly them through Quang Tri Province. And if they wanted to, they could see what it's like to shoot a gun. That happened a couple of times when I was there.

On other web pages Bangert claims to be a door gunner for two helicpoter units. And on another page he claims to have seen bullet holes in Pagodas and temples all over Vietnam as he flew by. Excellent eye site.

Who is "President Kerry?"

Bangert is a modern Baron Muchausen. He's less believable than the story the leprechaun told me last night when I stopped off at the moon.

President who?

Escuse me. President Kerry? Bite your tongue.

So where is this guy now and what is he up to?

Thank you for posting this, Sen, and welcome to FR!

I saw your letter at wintersoldier.com and it stood out as one of the most important pieces in the whole examination of the WSI that Scott Swett (FR's "Interesting Times") has started.

FYI

The most important debunking of the WSI so far, in my opinion, if Sen Star's critique holds up. I have no military experience, let alone Vietnam experience, though.

Does this critique of Bangert's WSI testimony seem apt to you?

How does this critique of Bangert strike you?

Hello again, and welcome to Free Republic.

I'll ask the moderators to change the "President Kerry" thing before you get savaged too much...

Bangert has also claimed to have been an officer at various times. Word from actual officers from VMO-6 was that Bangert was an E-5 in the admin shop and NEVER flew in any of the squadron's five types, and I mean never... let alone as crew.

VMO-6 had O-1E, OV-10, UH-1B, UH-1D, and AH-1G at the time, if my memory of that message is right. Only the UH-1s had enlisted crewmen.

Phonies like Bangert are Kerry's real Band of Brothers.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

A private investigator just called a friend of mine who has been helping me triangulate the who's who is all of this. He spoke to a crewmember who was in VMO-6 with Joe Bangert and has PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE that Bangert flew in combat missions in Uh-1E's, slicks and gunships as well as flew in aerial and ground combat missions in Phrogs in Quang Tri, and over by and in side Laos in '69. So......I don't think you can disparage his combat bona fides if there are corroborating witnesses, although you still can disagree with his point of view.
Could be some confusion about rank by civilians. Bangert, my friend told me, was a Sergeant (E-5)and that would definitely make him a Non-Commissioned Officer or NCO. My friend thinks Bangert may have worked on clandestine ground missions outside of his MOS- MACV did have a compound in QTC.

If this guy fought honorably in uniform he should not be mislabeled as a 'phony vet', for this will backfire on our credibility. Tread lightly if this guy has eyewitnesses. It appears these guys had twisted Nixon's head around, so that Nixon tried to outflank them by kissing Kissinger's ass and running to Red China for cover.

Nixon was a communist!

What's Bangert's fellow crew-member's name? Is he willing to report his experiences on a website somewhere so that we can access it in full?

A real vet can lie about specifics like atrocities. Bangert stands so accused.

I don't think you can disparage his combat bona fides if there are corroborating witnesses, although you still can disagree with his point of view.

Corroborating witnesses would help - names?

Also signing form 180s so experts like Burkett can contribute to our understanding.

How likely do you find Bangert's story about the Marines in the truck blowing away the kids just for flipping them the finger. How likely that he would see this on his first day in Vietnam?

"President Kerry"???

May piles of hot coal be heaped on your forehead.

Just kidding.

Ping for later reading!!!

Let me get this straight:

A private investigator -- (Without a name) [III]

Called a friend -- (without a name) [II]

of mine -- (without a name) [I]

That's three anonymities removed.

He spoke to a crewmember (without a name) [IV]!!

You are either lying, or being lied to, in which case you are extremely gullible to accept this. Earmarks of the Kerry supporter, either way...

You are vouching for some anonymous guy four anonymities removed for reality and SHOUTING about his "personal knowledge." I have a guy known to me, who has a name, who states categorically that Joe V. Bangert worked in the admin shop and "never flew as aircrew in any of our aircraft." He might have ridden as a passenger, but that isn't the story Phony Joe tells.

Finally as to two of your claims:

in side Laos

and...

My friend thinks Bangert may have worked on clandestine ground missions outside of his MOS

I will ignore your attempt to hide behind your imaginary "friend," and can tell you both statements are arrant bullshit. The Marines, who contributed above and beyond to many parts of the war, did not have a part in SOG ground operations. Full stop. This is a red flag for a wannabee or phony. No unit, Marine or otherwise, that did clandestine ground operations pulled clerks out of their filing cabinets in aviation units and threw them into the bush. This is another common wannabee dodge: "My records say I was an admin clerk at Quang Tri but that's just a cover, I was really a double-O executive with a license to kill, and my real records were classified." Bzzzzt. I served in a classified assignment and know how it works, and guess what -- there are records in great profusion. Not to mention people that remember me and that I remember. Something strangely missing from Bangert's fantasyland are the names of any living survivors except him.

If you were actually a vet you wouldn't try to sell this nonsense. Not only are there a lot of real vets who survived the war (no thanks to Kerry), but there's a whole lot of records available to those who know where to look, and guess what? They're all (as far as personnel are concerned) declassified. That war was ancient history to today's military.

But then, we knew Bangert was phony... like many of his VVAW pals starting with founder Jan Crumb (or Barry... even the guy's name is phony) and executive director Al Hubbard (another guy whose records of heroism are so secret they don't exist. And another guy -- like Bangert -- who promoted himself in his tall tales after leaving the service). Crumb, Hubbard, Bangert -- all phony, leading inexorably to War Hero and NVA Quisling, John Kerry.

There were real (if misled) combat soldiers in the VVAW. But they were a tiny, inconsequential minority; the leaders were REMFs, pogues and phonies across the board.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

Cogent post, at least to this non-veteran.

Had to look up a word, though.

Pogue: "derogatory term for military personnel employed in rear echelon support capacities, usually used by Marines."