Why I Am Now Behind Arnold

me

[risk]

If everyone who was for McClintock actually voted for the man he would win!

Thanks for the positive spirit. I wish we could just poll FR and ask people who they want to win, instead of who they think they have to support. This campaign is just getting started! And besides, if you took a poll of us McClintock supporters, you'd find all kinds of Californians. I've argued with everyone on this addressee list except RR about something or another and I think McClintock is a great candidate.

For one thing, McClintock is respected as being confident in his convictions. He will stick to what he believes when others would waver in fear. And he knows our state. We really need to get simple here, that's been the problem all along! Complicated politics are only necessary if one has no faith in the American dream.

I think the machinery is underestimating how deep the desire for cutting budgets and getting back to the basics is in California. I think there's a traditional kind of Bear Flag Revolt patriotism afoot, as well. McClintock has the real goods there.

I've been an Arnold Schwarzenegger film fan since I can remember. (I think the cartoonish and simple "Conan philosophy" is oustanding!) I also like his dedication and drive. But I think Arnold could learn something about being a loyal Californian from Tom McClintock. We should all admit that we like Tom and see what the results are! Because I think most people on FR do. Wouldn't it be interesting to the voters of California to learn that about us?

[nyconse]

He raised the cigarette tax and resisted other tax increases. Georgia has serious budget problems. Barnes would have raised income taxes, car taxes etc. Gov. perdue wants a referendum on the flag, but unfortunately the state Senate (or is it the state house)is Democratic. He will not get it though the legislature. There will be a vote-Georgians will be asked to decide whether to keep the newest flag or not. If they say no-I hear it is at this point Perdue will again push the old flag-try to get a vote. I have to tell you, the only reason I want a vote on the old flag is Perdue promised it. I think Politicians should keep their word if they can. The flag issue is foolish I think. The old flag was adopted during the segregation fight in the 50's. I would rather go back to the pre-1950's flag and be done with it. I can certainly understand why Blacks find it offensive-reminds them of the bad old days. Maybe the flag should be one that all Georgians (Black and White) can respect. On the other hand, as someone from the South, I am sick and tired of hearing the South trashed. We can't be proud of our ancestors who fought gallantly for the South-it's not politically correct. God forbid you mention the confederacy or sing Dixie at a football game. This is why some folks are so ticked about the flag. It's yet another piece of our heritage taken away from us by the politically correct. Of course the flag that Barnes got rid of never flew during (as Grandma called it) the war of Northern agression. LOL

[DrMartinVonNostrand]

Let me walk you through this slowly.

It is 'settled law' I (at least so you claim) only because people are dumb or immoral enough to give political support to politicians similiar to Arnold Schwarzenegger.

No, it is settled law because jurists unanimously agree that it is. It is settled law because it is supported by 30 years of ruling after ruling that all reinforce each other, solidifying it in a web of case law. The longer it stands and the more supporting rulings, the more hardened it becomes. Justices are loathe to overturn established precident. It is all but impossible for it to be successfully overturned by now.

It's time to come to grips with the harsh reality of it.

You do know that politicians choose judges, right?

Yes, I am aware that politicians choose judges. Are you aware that the California Supreme Court cannot overturn the US Supreme Court?

By the way, if it is so 'settled', why are the Democrats beside themselves over judicial appointments?

Because it is a red herring. They just don't like judges that they can't buy off.

[rolling_stone]

Here is a good reason to have a Republican/moderate Governor...187 might have taken effect..one liberal judge and Gray Davis blocked the voters decision and helped with the fall of California..

http://www.fairus.org/html/9-11.htm

[nyconse]

The Dems only avenue of power is the courts right now. Their message is unpopular. They will attempt to legislate through judicial activism. Conservatives on the supreme court would seriously undermine their plans. Dems could never have gotten Roe v Wade through congress and they know it.

[nyconse]

Good point-I heard Arnold supports prop 187.

[nyconse]

To all;

Must go to bed. Great post-enjoyed the discussion

[RS]

"NO conservative can or will get elected....the Dems will eat them alive.....but they won't butt heads too hard with Arnold."

There are those that believe that if we can't get exactly who or what we want then it's better to allow a communist ( or worse a Clinton ) and then we will "show them how bad it can get "

I've always thought this was absurd, and against the principles that this country was founded on.

If Arnold can win, and he dosen't like them too much, fine with me. ... and I agree with him on more then "pure" conservatives would like.

[Tamzee]

Okay. Let's talk about the unalienable right to keep and bear arms. The right to protect your family, your property, your community and yourself.

I agree in our unalienable right to keep and bear arms, but I also support wait periods, background checks and forbidding the sale of machine guns. I am with you on "gun control" having become un-Constitutionally restrictive in many areas and believe every citizen should be allowed to own guns if they have no criminal record.

If Schwarzenegger does want to restrict gun ownership even further, can you tell me in what manner he proposes to do that? And as for how I can "support such a politician", I don't define Republicans by just a small selection of issues out of the hundreds addressed by the GOP platform. I also believe in long-term political strategy and conservatives consistently putting forward the MOST right-wing candidate that a given population is ready to elect. Whether we like it or not, the Democrats, Greens, progressives, socialists, communists, and anarchists all have the right to vote. Lower the high numbers of those voters in California through educating the public and we can slowly pull the state further to the right :-) In the meantime, we have to allow candidates that appeal to the center in order to make any conservative progress at all.

[DrMartinVonNostrand]

I like Tom McClintock a whole lot, and I know he has a bright future ahead still in California.

Perhaps one day he can ever be Governor or a US Senator.

But for now I actually would PREFER Arnold as Governor. It is just not worth the retribution for installing a staunch conservative in this recall.

Arnold will be elected in a very bi-partisan way, giving him a mandate and an air of legitimacy. I disagree with bi-partisanship in the Congress, but if Republicans want to get out of this recall alive in the current political atmosphere, Arnold is our best bet. People view Arnold as Arnold, not as a partisan politician. that is what makes him our best asset in what would otherwise be successfully portrayed as a divisive right-wing coup by the Democrats.

[RS]

"He can win if people vote for the best candidate for the job."

But IS he right now ?

How has he said he will convince a Dem controlled legislature to agree with his ideas and methods ?

Will McClintock be burned out and tossed when he spends a few years in a no-win job ?

Let him convince me that he can deliver on the lofty ideas he has put forth and I might consider him.

[DrMartinVonNostrand]

Arnold on the other hand could really twist some arms in the legislature.

Literally.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

A conservative can not get elected in California

Complete and utter b*******. You wouldn't know anyway. You don't live here. That's my point. You are entitled to your opinion but your opinion is flat out wrong.

[RS]

"Arnold on the other hand could really twist some arms in the legislature."

How many local polititians would not like to appear at a support rally with Arnold ?

He could single-handedly change the makeup at the next election.

Upside - he gives us a chance at setting things right-
Downside - none ( we are screwed already ! )

[wardaddy]

than I have love for right-wing Republicans.

I'm crushed. But, I'd support Arnold anyhow....the only somewhat alternative that can WIN.

[RS]

"A conservative can not get elected in California

Complete and utter b*******. ..."

... and of course you have some information to support the theory that enough of the majority of Democrats in the state will suddenly change values...

[DrMartinVonNostrand]

California has about 15 million registered voters.

About 4 million of them are Republicans.
About 5 million of them are Democrats.
The remaining 6 million are independent and non-partisan.

Those are the hearts and minds we are going for.
They are the ones who have been told by the media that Republicans are mean, square, and greedy, and that Democrats are laid back, hip, and caring.

Are any of you starting to understand why we NEED Arnold yet?

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

I have not responded to you thus far because I believe you are:

a) an Arnold groupie/campaign worker
b)a minion of Bush/Parsky/Rove who are bent on destroying this state
c)another poster who decided to take a second screenname to harass McClintock supporters
d)all of the above

I'm not buying the schtick about thinking long and hard and choosing Arnold. We don't know a damn thing about his platform which Riordan is deciding at the moment. Thus far, no sale.

McClintock kicked a** as usual on Greta tonight.

This election is just getting started. It is not over by any stretch. Arnold's "base" is hardly reliable. A good percentage is star struck and will be lucky to figure out how to register to vote let alone find their polling place and vote. Second, Arnie's numbers can only go down once thinking voters realize he is all style and no substance. The one-liners and media manipulation are getting old already.

Current stats put Dems at 45% of registered voters and Republicans at 35% of registered voters. That does not factor in rampant voter fraud estimated between 5-30% in all areas of the state and closes that 10% gap an unknown amount. We cannot do anything about that in this election, let alone know whether anyone will ever do anything about it, but Republicans are more reliable voters than Dems.

The Dems are worked up because 58 days just isn't enough time to energize the fraud base. That takes time and money. As for the Arnold groupies, since you all insist McClintock doesn't have a chance and will be no factor in this race, why are you all working so frantically to destroy him?

[RS]

"I agree in our unalienable right to keep and bear arms, but I also support wait periods, background checks and forbidding the sale of machine guns.

Lets see -

Background checks- see if you were crazy

wait period - in case you just went crazy

machine guns - limit damage in case you may go crazy

One based on what you ARE guilty of

One based on what you may be thinking of

One based on what you might do someday even though you get passed the others

I don't believe that MY freedom is based on supressing what other people MIGHT do.

[Carry_Okie]

What you don't understand is that independents and traditional Slave Party constituencies are ready and willing to support programs and ideas that originate from conservative principles. That is why so many conservative ballot propositions have passed by wide margins in recent years. Californians are more ready to do so than give credence to another "middle of the road" plan than you realize simply because so many deeply believe that both parties are the same and stand for nothing.

Out of your numbers, how many of those "independents" and Democrats actually vote? That is where your case is misleading. Turnout among conservatives, and especially in special elections, is historically higher.