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Why I Am Now Behind Arnold
me

Posted on 08/12/2003 9:52:14 AM PDT by DrMartinVonNostrand

I have slowly come to the conclusion that California needs Arnold. Republicans need Arnold, and above all, California Republicans need Arnold.

I had been leaning towards McClintock, and I must admit, I made that decision before Arnold threw his hat into the ring. I welcomed the move when he did, but I still had reservations. I had gotten pretty excited over McClintock's vision, particularly his desire to void the Davis energy contracts and his general desire to stick it to the Democrats. I was also justifiably concerned at first about Arnold's talk of handing the treasury over to "the children".

But one has to be able to discern politics from policy. Everyone who wants to win elective office has to pay lipservice to "the children". It is the national passtime of politicians. I think when Arnold says "the children should have the first call of state Treasury" it is followed by an unspoken qualifier of "before illegal immigrants, welfare recipients, and special interests." He is simply putting forth his priorities, and they lay in stark contrast to Gray Davis and Cruz Bustamante's. He is quite savvy, so he isn't going to come out and say it in those words. He knows highlighting what is his priorities gets much better press than highlighting what isn't. He wants to reassure the soccer moms who have been frightened by Davis' threats of cutting funding to schools that he will be looking elsewhere to cut.

Arnold is very mindful of the hurdles he faces by running as a Republican in such a liberal state, so he will take extra measures to make traditional Democratic voters feel comfortable voting for him. It is what he has to do right now if he wants to win, and it seems to be working brilliantly.

Some conservatives will argue against Schwarzenegger because he opposed the impeachment of Bill Clinton. But Arnold understood the articles of impeachment that were brought were a pretty weak justification. Right or wrong, they were too easily construed as a right-wing lynching. He recognized it as too divisive and knew it could only further poison the political atmosphere and ultimately damage the Republican party.

Perhaps if Ken Starr had the convictions to pursue the serious matters of Whitewater, Chinagate, Filegate, or the murder of Vincent Foster, then Arnold would have seen it differently, just as the rest of America would have. But clearly Starr had no will to do so. It's hard to understand why, but perhaps he didn't want to expose that level of corruption in the highest office out of the long-term best interest of the American political system. Exposing Clinton's ties to the Dixieland mafia and Red China could have brought the entire government to its knees. It would have been a short-term victory for Republicans, but just as Nixon understood when he covered for Kennedy and Johnson over the Pentagon Papers, the long-term damage to the nation as a whole would have been far too great. Anyways, had Clinton actually been removed from office as a lame duck on those flimsy charges, we would have a President Gore in office right now. Arnold knew, just as everyone else did, that this was not going to happen considering it required a two-thirds majority in the Senate. Surely he understood that impeachment was a lose-lose proposition for Republicans so it was a mistake to go down that road. It was important for him to remain above it all for the sake of his own political future.

Some will argue that what we need right now is someone sort of financial wizard to fix the budget, and Arnold just doesn't qualify. But the truth is we really only need someone who can admit that Gray Davis has made some huge mistakes. Anyone but Gray Davis will do.

I hate to admit it, but the whole budget crisis is being about as overplayed for political reasons as the federal deficit in the '90s was (and is again). When it comes down to brass tacks, I think even the Democrats will bite the bullet and fix it. Yes, I know you're cringing, I am too, but it's the truth. The issue here isn't that the Democrats are incapable or even unwilling to fixing the budget. It's merely about how they want to fix it: the usual liberal approach of skyrocketing taxes. Either way, California isn't going to drop into the ocean or become a third world nation.

As far as Arnold not being a "social conservative", neither am I, and neither is California. A social conservative is not going to win a statewide election here for a long time to come. I fit in more along the lines of a fiscal conservative, just as Arnold is, and a "Constitutional conservative" with libertarian tendencies. Piety is not a prerequisite for my support, and too much of it may even lose it. I don't begrudge anyone their religious beliefs, but I do belive strongly in Jefferson's "wall of seperation between church and state". I also believe in strict interpritation of the First Ammendment, and that freedom of religion also entails freedom from religion. I realize those of you in the religious-right do not agree because this doesn't reinforce your personal religious beliefs, but not everything should be about our own personal whims and narrow agendas. Defending our own freedom as individuals must always be a higher objective. Otherwise it may be you they come for next. The Constitution protects everyone, or it protects no one. I think there are a lot of people on both extremes who forget that sometimes.

Even though some will say for these various reasons that Schwarzenegger is not the ideal conservative candidate, it is important for everyone to be pragmatic and pick their battles wisely. Right now we should be looking at long-term goals. An expedient victory in the recall of a conservative candidate by a 20 percent plurality is going to be counterproductive in the long-term. What are you going to do when Bill Simon is elected and the drive to recall him begins October 8th and qualifies three weeks later?

Electing Arnold, who can come to office with a true mandate and bring California together, will pay off big in the perception wars. Conservatives will never get their agenda anywhere in California as long as it is taboo to even vote for Republicans here. The longer Democrats have a complete lock on the state, the further left we will drift. Even if Arnold can't change the course right away, he can at least slow the momentum.

Personally, my goal is the destruction of the Democratic party and the liberal agenda far more than it is advancing any conservative single-issue. I have far more hate for left-wing Democrats than I have love for right-wing Republicans. I would be happy simply with a return to sanity at this point.

You can't walk a mile until you take the first step. For right now we all need to be concentrating on the jouney one step at a time or we will never reach the final destination. You have to at least open the door, which is now closed and locked here. It seems like a lot of right-wingers around here would rather rant and rave and pound on the door in futility than grab it by the handle.

I think I've finally figured that one out. For the death-before-electibility crowd, it's not about advancing their cause on earth, it's about earning a place in heaven.

As for the rest of us, we have to make a decision: do we want a small victory, or a huge defeat?


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: 1eternalvignotincali; california; davis; election; governor; guessmyotherid; imatroll; mcclintock; recall; schwarzenegger; schwarzenutter
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
Yes, Arnold is the only Republican that can win and not do harm to the party.

Schwarzenegger could do the most harm of anybody to the party. If he comes in a raises taxes, ends Prop 13, bans guns, increases spending, how is that going to be a good thing? And if he come in and endorses Barbara Boxer in 2004 and endorses Dems in other races in 2004, how will that help the GOP? Already, some of his friends have suggested he may switch parties after elected.

121 posted on 08/12/2003 1:31:02 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: Sabertooth
Yes, I read the piece by David Horowitz and that was one of the things that contributed to my mindset. It reinforced to some extent what I had been thinking about for the past couple of days now.
122 posted on 08/12/2003 1:32:25 PM PDT by DrMartinVonNostrand
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To: nickcarraway
That is ridiculous. Arnold has been a Republican for as long as he's been in America. He is not about to switch parties. If he were going to, it would have been back when he exchanged wedding vows.

Don't forget, one of George Bush's most closely trusted advisers is Mary Matalin, and she is married to the most dispicable James Carville.
123 posted on 08/12/2003 1:36:35 PM PDT by DrMartinVonNostrand
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
They will be recalled. Immediately.

That's ridiculous. It's very hard to recall a governor. Californians aren't going to turn around and have another recall. Cite a shred of evidence in support of that.

And how do you think the largely Democratic voters in California will respond to such a "right-wing coup" in the state?

If it's a coup, it's a coup, even if Schwarzenegger wins.

Arnold is the only Republican - the only candidate at all, even - who can win and be accepted by the people as legitimate.

Do you have any evidence of this? No.

Do you think having an "illigitimate" Republican Governor who "stole the election" would be good for Bush here in 2004?

It is said that you have such disrepect for the Constitution. The recall is a full legal process. How come you are not concerned with the November 2002 election being illegitimate, since there were more illegal votes cast than the difference between the two candidates. It's interesting that you have less respect for a fully legal recall, than you do of voter fraud. Why is voter fraud not important to you?

124 posted on 08/12/2003 1:37:36 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
What's ridiculous is out-of-staters telling us how to vote.
125 posted on 08/12/2003 1:38:17 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
That is ridiculous. Arnold has been a Republican for as long as he's been in America. He is not about to switch parties.

Why do his freinds say he may? And what about the other questions? Raising taxes, endorsing Dems, etc.

126 posted on 08/12/2003 1:39:11 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
Welcome, friend!

Your analysis is appreciated, and it is well-reasoned.

I agree with your conclusions, but even if I didn't, your contribution adds positively to the discussion.

Since I've met Arnold, I can assure you that your impressions of his persona and his impact on the Republican party will make all Warrior FReepers - the kind who understand how to win and hold power - very proud to call him friend.
127 posted on 08/12/2003 1:43:02 PM PDT by Stallone
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
Personally, my goal is the destruction of the Democratic party and the liberal agenda far more than it is advancing any conservative single-issue. I have far more hate for left-wing Democrats than I have love for right-wing Republicans. I would be happy simply with a return to sanity at this point.

Very well stated! Absolutely GREAT Post!

128 posted on 08/12/2003 1:45:13 PM PDT by PhiKapMom (VOTE FOR ARNOLD -- GOP's Best Chance to Tank Hillary for 2004 and beyond!)
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
Nice post, and great screen-name.

Arnold is the best reasonable alternative out there. And about him switching parties....If he was going to do that, why not announce it before the election since he's running in a state that is predominantly Democrat?

129 posted on 08/12/2003 1:46:06 PM PDT by XJarhead
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To: Sabertooth
A real political leader wouldn't turn away a Republican who is a passionate patriot and loves America, and has the enthusiastic support of the people of the state that brought us San Fran, Berkeley, Hollywood, and the likes of Pelosi, Davis, Boxer and Feinstein.

Ergo, you are no leader.

Being a Warrior FReeper is not only about talking tough and being idealogical.

As Reagan said, someone who agrees with you 80% is NOT your enemy.

Let's be smart enough to win and hold power.
130 posted on 08/12/2003 1:50:37 PM PDT by Stallone
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To: Tooters
Same conclusion that i have arrived at..I also will vote
for the big guy...Jake
131 posted on 08/12/2003 1:51:29 PM PDT by sanjacjake
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
The Constitution protects everyone, or it protects no one.

Like those 40 million or so little Americans who didn't have the good fortune to have escaped the birth canal before their loving parents and their 'Doktors' sucked them to pieces?

No, I know--you and Ah-nuld didn't mean them...

Actually, you and Mr. Schwarzenegger are in all likelihood a very good fit for one another.

132 posted on 08/12/2003 1:53:27 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: JustAnAmerican
>> "One thing I'd like to point out to people is simply this: having a Republican, even a RINO, in office in California will get the populace used to voting Republican again.
Just suppose, for the sake of argument, that he pulls a Jeffords when he gets elected? Seems like a big possibility given his cozyness with the Kennedys.
<<

Hell, he doesn't even need to pull a Jeffords. George Ryan (RINO-IL) is STILL a "lifelong Republican", even though his best friend are Fidel Castro, Richie Daley, and the kooky green party guys who whine about the "racist" death penalty. Having Lyin' Ryan in office really "inspired" Illinoisians to vote Republican, didn't it?

Following the logic of Arinold supporters, NJ, NY, MA, TN, AZ, etc. should all be fertile grounds for Republicans now as well....yet they all went solid 'RAT after getting "leadershp" from a corrupt RINO adminstration. Hmmm.

133 posted on 08/12/2003 1:55:46 PM PDT by BillyBoy (George Ryan deserves a long term....without parole.)
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To: kkindt
I don't think doctors should be performing abortions (unless it is to save the life of the mother). I believe that is in conflict with their Hippocratic Oath.

The second part of your question is rather broad and quite vague as to who exactly you are referring to, and with whom they are engaging in said act with. But without getting too sexually explicit, I can only say anyone who hasn't committed some sort of act that qualifies as "sodomy" surely hasn't fully lived.
134 posted on 08/12/2003 1:56:01 PM PDT by DrMartinVonNostrand
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
The one who makes some advancement, or the one who loses ground?

In this case, the question is not one of whom can make advancement, but in what direction.

How can you talk about 'advancement' with a straight face when the guy's agenda is so obviously to the left of the Clinton's?

Well, you probably don't have a straight face--you are probably laughing your *ss off that anyone will buy your sophistry.

135 posted on 08/12/2003 1:57:07 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: Stallone
You are wasting your time -- that Freeper loves nothing better than to go on another site and trash all of us.

Personally I think the word RINO is being applied to the wrong group. The Republican Party has always been moderate to conservative with few liberals -- we always voted. It is the religious right and/or the far right conservatives that come up with the litmus test for Republican candidates -- it is 100% of what they want or they threaten to stay home. To me those people that threaten candidates with not voting are the RINOs -- Republicans in Name Only!

"Real" Republicans go vote and nothing will stop them -- they also vote/work for the candidates that will WIN because losing ia not an option going into a campaign. Religious conservatives will not win in some states and that is fact! I agree with the Reagan philosophy of 80% of agreement with a Republican is better than any DemocRAT. If there is an "R" behind the name, this Bush Republican votes for them! Simple as that!
136 posted on 08/12/2003 1:58:16 PM PDT by PhiKapMom (VOTE FOR ARNOLD -- GOP's Best Chance to Tank Hillary for 2004 and beyond!)
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To: Political Junkie Too

You know looking and the map.....one good earthquake... and we own this state

137 posted on 08/12/2003 2:01:08 PM PDT by tophat9000
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To: nickcarraway
{California pays over $100 million in tax dollars to Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers per year}

Imagine just how much money California would save, if it stopped funding Planned Parenthood.
138 posted on 08/12/2003 2:04:15 PM PDT by Kuksool (There are no guarantees in the Gray Recall)
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To: Kuksool
Imagine just how much money California would save, if it stopped funding Planned Parenthood.

Well, the gubernator will fix that in no time!

/sarcasm

139 posted on 08/12/2003 2:07:14 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: Stallone; DrMartinVonNostrand
"DrMartinVonNostrand, I agree with your conclusions, but even if I didn't, your contribution adds positively to the discussion....."

I second that opinion, Stallone.
Great post, Dr.M, and well thought out reponses.

(Good job, Newbie! Hang in there. This is what the FR forum is about- the honest exchange of ideas. Welcome, or welcome back, to FR!)
140 posted on 08/12/2003 2:09:05 PM PDT by MaryFromMichigan (God made us Freepers, Prozac made us friends.)
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