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Evolution Disclaimer Supported
The Advocate (Baton Rouge) ^ | 12/11/02 | WILL SENTELL

Posted on 12/11/2002 6:28:08 AM PST by A2J

By WILL SENTELL

wsentell@theadvocate.com

Capitol news bureau

High school biology textbooks would include a disclaimer that evolution is only a theory under a change approved Tuesday by a committee of the state's top school board.

If the disclaimer wins final approval, it would apparently make Louisiana just the second state in the nation with such a provision. The other is Alabama, which is the model for the disclaimer backers want in Louisiana.

Alabama approved its policy six or seven years ago after extensive controversy that included questions over the religious overtones of the issue.

The change approved Tuesday requires Louisiana education officials to check on details for getting publishers to add the disclaimer to biology textbooks.

It won approval in the board's Student and School Standards/ Instruction Committee after a sometimes contentious session.

"I don't believe I evolved from some primate," said Jim Stafford, a board member from Monroe. Stafford said evolution should be offered as a theory, not fact.

Whether the proposal will win approval by the full state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education on Thursday is unclear.

Paul Pastorek of New Orleans, president of the board, said he will oppose the addition.

"I am not prepared to go back to the Dark Ages," Pastorek said.

"I don't think state boards should dictate editorial content of school textbooks," he said. "We shouldn't be involved with that."

Donna Contois of Metairie, chairwoman of the committee that approved the change, said afterward she could not say whether it will win approval by the full board.

The disclaimer under consideration says the theory of evolution "still leaves many unanswered questions about the origin of life.

"Study hard and keep an open mind," it says. "Someday you may contribute to the theories of how living things appeared on earth."

Backers say the addition would be inserted in the front of biology textbooks used by students in grades 9-12, possibly next fall.

The issue surfaced when a committee of the board prepared to approve dozens of textbooks used by both public and nonpublic schools. The list was recommended by a separate panel that reviews textbooks every seven years.

A handful of citizens, one armed with a copy of Charles Darwin's "Origin of the Species," complained that biology textbooks used now are one-sided in promoting evolution uncritically and are riddled with factual errors.

"If we give them all the facts to make up their mind, we have educated them," Darrell White of Baton Rouge said of students. "Otherwise we have indoctrinated them."

Darwin wrote that individuals with certain characteristics enjoy an edge over their peers and life forms developed gradually millions of years ago.

Backers bristled at suggestions that they favor the teaching of creationism, which says that life began about 6,000 years ago in a process described in the Bible's Book of Genesis.

White said he is the father of seven children, including a 10th-grader at a public high school in Baton Rouge.

He said he reviewed 21 science textbooks for use by middle and high school students. White called Darwin's book "racist and sexist" and said students are entitled to know more about controversy that swirls around the theory.

"If nothing else, put a disclaimer in the front of the textbooks," White said.

John Oller Jr., a professor at the University of Louisiana-Lafayette, also criticized the accuracy of science textbooks under review. Oller said he was appearing on behalf of the Louisiana Family Forum, a Christian lobbying group.

Oller said the state should force publishers to offer alternatives, correct mistakes in textbooks and fill in gaps in science teachings. "We are talking about major falsehoods that should be addressed," he said.

Linda Johnson of Plaquemine, a member of the board, said she supports the change. Johnson said the new message of evolution "will encourage students to go after the facts."


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; rades
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To: js1138
"Even if God is an intelligent designer, there is no reason not to study the design. . . . "

Good post.

Theologians thought they were in hot water when science began to discover the age of the substances around us. It did not square, at least on the surface of it, with what the Bible teaches. Just like evolutionists, they scrambled to concoct defenses and explanations that really didn't hold much weight.

What they seemed not to understand is that the universe will demonstate very well not only figures in the billions of years, but even to infinity. Science demonstrates fairly well these days that the laws of nature we've so long observed and calculated may not always apply the same way at any given time or place, black holes not withstanding.

So, walking on water, physically passing through locked doors, changing water into wine, etc. are not at all scientifically implausible, especially given the fact that there is relatively more space in what we see as a solid object than there is between the earth and the sun. Especially given the fact that science has yet to adequately account for the energy that permeates the universe.

So, I'm glad science has progessed to this point without having to constantly remind me that God did it. Heck, I don't care if they make these discoveries while avowing with great certainly to themselves "there is no God." I know already that He not only whipped all this stuff up, but that He will continue to sustain and govern it until He decides to pick up His marbles and end the game as we know it.

Each new scientific discovery confirms these things all the more. It is rather delightful to see so many peon scientists employed by God without their even knowing it, so that they may incidentally confirm to me what I already know, and what even a five-year-old knows.

2,481 posted on 01/03/2003 9:26:03 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: balrog666
Skipping over any discussion of "objectively", wouldn't the Muslims say the same thing? Or Jews? Or Buddhists? Or Hindi? Or Jans? Or Shintoists? Or Taoists?

And each and every one of them is more rational than undirected abiogenesis.

And would you include the Moonies, Jonestown, or David Koresh's little sect in your sweeping embrace of Christianity's successes?

Why not Charles Manson, too? He claimed to be Christ. Claiming oneself to be the the Messiah pretty much eliminates one from having any claim on being a disciple of the Lord Jesus.

2,482 posted on 01/03/2003 9:28:23 AM PST by Tribune7
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To: Aric2000; Fester Chugabrew; tpaine
I'd like to add something to the discussion. The claim has been made that saying God did it will halt (or delay) scientific inquiry.

I wish to add that scientists halt their own inquiry when they invoke the anthropic principle. As evidence, I give you this:

Cosmological Parameters and Galaxy Biasing (pdf)

On page 9, with regard to an anomaly, the writer says: Do we need to introduce a new physics or invoke the Anthropic Principle to explain it?

For lurkers, here are some other anomalies that have been bucketed into the Anthropic Principle.

IMHO, there is no substantive difference between halting inquiry by saying God did it v. by bucketing the anomaly into the Anthropic Principle. Neither is acceptable to me.

2,483 posted on 01/03/2003 9:29:42 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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Comment #2,484 Removed by Moderator

To: Aric2000
Would you want live in culture whose morality is based on "survival of the fittest?" . . .But we don't, so what's the problem?

B. Rabbit and, I suspect, some others want to.

2,485 posted on 01/03/2003 9:30:30 AM PST by Tribune7
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To: nanrod
I hardly consider Newt as the paradigm of morality.
2,486 posted on 01/03/2003 9:34:59 AM PST by whattajoke
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To: Junior
Placemarker.
2,487 posted on 01/03/2003 9:35:02 AM PST by Junior
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To: VadeRetro
"It gives evidence that when the water is gone, the rest doesn't weigh much. (Did you really not realize this, Fester?)"

No, I really didn't. I forgot to reason that, in the case of mummies found in the desert, they weigh one third of what the living being did. This would lead the ancients, or anyone for that matter, to at least assume something of substance was taken from the body. Would they assume that substance is water? Probably. Would they, for that reason, conclude than man is made mostly from water? Probably.

Nevertheless, if one looks only on the surface of things it is not readily apparent that the bodies we see walking around and communicating are comprised of a mix that includes 2 parts H2O and 1 part other stuff.

I offer this only as a way of suggesting that ancient religious writings are not ipso facto false when they make claims to phenomena not readily observed by the human eye.

2,488 posted on 01/03/2003 9:46:03 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Great post
2,489 posted on 01/03/2003 9:46:18 AM PST by Tribune7
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To: js1138
Free will in madness---evolution(crack)...funny---real funny!
2,490 posted on 01/03/2003 10:05:28 AM PST by f.Christian
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To: whattajoke
"2450 posts and you ask what the big deal is?!"

I'm sure we could go another 2450 posts and not have it figured out. Does this bother you? What does the number of posts devoted to the subject have to do with the validity of either side's arguments?

"For those theists who accept the fact of evolution . . . But for those who can't . . . "

The world is full of both kinds, and both have contributed great things to science. Is it proper in a constitutional democracy to deny one party either hearing or say in tax funded public schools? Neither can sufficiently prove or disprove their own views, and in my view, neither is particularly well suited to domination or total exclusion.

Unless evolutionists want to be so dumb as to say creationism does not exist, they ought to be willing to give it equal time in the classroom. As a firm believer in creationism myself, I would be doing a disservice to my children if I did not expose them to the teachings of evolution.

In short, the closed-mindedness of of evolutionist politics is astonishing in view of the fact it is they who claim to be "scientific."

2,491 posted on 01/03/2003 10:14:36 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: B. Rabbit
Reality/Truth/sanity would be 'clutter' to someone who is over taken in the mad morph disease!
2,492 posted on 01/03/2003 10:17:59 AM PST by f.Christian
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To: Fester Chugabrew
closed-mindedness of of evolutionist politics

DUMB/statist-mindedness of of evolutionist politics

2,493 posted on 01/03/2003 10:23:43 AM PST by f.Christian
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Unless evolutionists want to be so dumb as to say creationism does not exist, they ought to be willing to give it equal time in the classroom.

As has been shown, we "dumb evolutionists" can't prove something doesn't exist, but I can state that in all liklihood, creationism doesn't exist. But lets pretend your idea takes hold and schools are required to teach creationism... Aside from the obvious (which has been asked of you several times) question of which creation myth to teach, what the hell would you even teach? I mean, "Christian God created everything" leaves lots of classroom time. Even after all the other myths are put forth, I'd figure the kids would still have 179.5 days to study science. (Leaving out the little tidbit about religion being taught in public schools, etc).
2,494 posted on 01/03/2003 10:28:27 AM PST by whattajoke
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To: nanrod
The robber barons and opium lords of the East India Company saw evolution as a religion they could work with whereas Christianity no longer really worked for their purposes.

What a coincidence. Lyndon Larouche had a big influence on Ted Holden too.

2,495 posted on 01/03/2003 10:28:46 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
You don't ignore people you get banned...that can't defend themselves---evo 'character/class'?
2,496 posted on 01/03/2003 10:31:31 AM PST by f.Christian
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To: tpaine
"It doesn't 'negate', -- it 'discourages' such study, -- as many victims of the inquisition tell us."

Take a look at the history of the Inquistion and tell me if it was driven by the philosophy that "God did it. You'd best not engage in scientific study or else . . ."

Speaking of inquisitions, I can well imagine creationists making genuine scientitific discoveries but having them ridiculed and discarded via evolutionist "inquisitions" in certain universities. Students, likewise, have been at the receiving end of "inquisitions" when they suggest there might just be some intelligent design behind all this stuff that looks and acts so consistently.

2,497 posted on 01/03/2003 10:32:10 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: nanrod
Newt Gingrich put it rather succinctly in noting that the question of whether a person viewed his fellow man as a fellow child of God or as a meat byproduct of natural and stochastic processes simply had to effect human relations. Once you accept this notion of "survival of the fittest" being the only moral law in nature, then there is no possibility of having a basis for morality. Morality is just whatever the "fittest" feels it ought to be at the moment.

Gee, Ted, why not just post the bat graphic to go with the bat guano?

2,498 posted on 01/03/2003 10:36:36 AM PST by balrog666
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To: VadeRetro
Indeed (as I pointed out to Fester in an earlier post, to no avail). What's really fascinating, though, is the very early development of the mummification process in many aboriginal cultures, including the shrinking and tanning of tissues to create effigies of enemies, a process developed in many cases without the benefit of desert dryness as an observational guide. Man demonstrated a remarkable (and somewhat gruesome) inventiveness pretty early on.
2,499 posted on 01/03/2003 10:39:39 AM PST by atlaw
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To: All
2500?
2,500 posted on 01/03/2003 10:39:52 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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