Posted on 11/06/2002 5:34:44 AM PST by logic101.net
TIME FOR AN END TO THE CONSERVATIVE INFIGHTING MARK A SITY 11/6/02
When WI taxpayers burden skyrockets, we have Ed Thompson to thank. When Milwaukee and the surrounding area are saddled with a light rail system few want, and no one will ride, we have Ed Thompson to thank. When caps on property taxes are removed, and property taxes skyrocket, we have Ed Thompson to thank. When welfare reform is de-reformed in WI, we have Ed Thompson to thank. When public schools in WI get even worse, and the public school teachers get huge raises, we have Ed Thompson to thank. When WI residents find their rights to defend themselves against criminals who break into their homes weakened, we have Ed Thompson to thank. When companies leave WI, or decide not to set up shop here due to our repressive tax structure, we have Ed Thompson to thank. When Gov Jim "bingo" Doyle rewards his contributors, at the expense of the taxpayers (as he has a history of doing), we have Ed Thompson to thank.
Who is Ed Thompson? Ed is the brother of Tommy, our former governor; the current HHS Secretary. Ed was the Libertarian candidate for governor in WI. Ed gave the Governor's Mansion to Bingo Jim by getting 10% of the vote. Governor McCallum lost the election by only 3%. Thanks Ed.
IL can say much the same for Cal Skinner. I don't know how much of the vote Cal got, but it is likely that Jim Ryan would have won there rather than the Democrat were it not for Cal. One good thing for WI residents over IL residents; at least we can pronounce and spell Bingo Jim's name. I won't even try either for the IL Governor Elect!
Let's keep in mind that Libertarians and Republicans are generally going in the same direction. True, the Republicans don't want to go as far as Libertarians, and there are some very contrary views. However, both generally want a smaller federal government that is less intrusive. Democrats on the other hand want bigger and bigger government. They want hand outs. They want dependency. They want Socialism rather than freedom! They want gun control rather than criminal control. They want ignorant sheeple rather than an informed, educated self-dependent population. I prefer much of the Libertarian agenda to that of the Republicans, but I find the Democrat agenda totally repulsive. Libertarians often hand elections to the Democrats, by taking away conservative leaning votes. When a Libertarian candidate's message resonates with the public; Democrats win! A Democratic win doesn't help Republicans, Libertarians, or Constitutionalists! It sets back all of our causes. It is well past time for Libertarians and Republicans to get together to defeat the common enemy. We can work out our differences later; let's get rid of the common threat first! As far as my views; neither Libertarians nor Republicans go far enough; I am a Constitutionalist! Yet, I generally vote Republican; I'm a realist. When we break the stranglehold of the left, then we can fight each other; but let's fight each other on our terms, not theirs!
Now, as far as Ed Thompson goes; well I have to steal a line from one of my favorite movies (They Call Me Trinity). I'm not mad at Ed, I'm mad at his ma. She should have strangled him, or at least drown him when he was born.
MARK A SITY http://www.logic101.net/
We didn't side with the Soviets, we fought against the same enemy. It isn't a small distinction.
It could be argued successfully that the Nazis would have been defeated one way or the other. The concept of world domination is folly.
The only way the Libertarian view and its arguements will become more mainstream is if the Republicans are the controlling party and the Left is left fractured and splintered by continued defeat...
I too am more Libertarian than Republican, but refuse to vote as such...there is a clear and present danger to freedom...and its the S/D's.
S/D's are out to destroy the Constitution...there efforts must not go un challenged...
Vote Republican until the scourge has been eliminated...
They are neither left nor right. They favor individual liberty and personal responsibility. The left claims some of the individual liberty issues. The right claims some of the personal responsibility issues.
Each of them has elements of libertarianism, not the other way around.
It seems like a small distinction, it is not.
I'm guessing you have seen the "Worlds smallest political quiz". If you haven't, I would be happy to provide you with a link.
Correct. The correct graph of political views is not linear. It is not only left / right. It is also up / down. It's called the Nolan Chart.
So where?
www.self-gov.org/
Some would argue that the Republicans are part of the scourge. I'm one of them.
And I am another.
Sounds like a plan that's been proven to work.
It wasn't a plan, it was a development. And we aren't going to get another leader to "dispatch" an enemy by electing people who agree with their fundamental tenets and try to one-up them in a race for big, unconstitutional programs and wealth transfer schemes.
Sounds good to me, but you work against that goal by voting for RINO's, because all they do is validate liberal assumptions and give them even more respectability than they deserve. Hence, the people are always going to be led to believe that liberalist values are the only reasonable ones, and it'll be nearly impossible to educate them otherwise. Historically, the only way either of the two parties can be led to change their tune is through the influence of third parties upon the electorate.
And I'd dispute your assumption that the Republicans have to act moderate because that's what the people demand. The people don't demand unchecked illegal immigration, corporate welfare, and overweening federal control of the internal affairs of the states. You and a lot of others confuse popular demand with media demand. Republicans need to learn to bypass the media, and if they don't, other parties will have to do it for them.
Incrementalism is a nice theory but I don't think it can work for I fear there is no correcting the mess we live in. All this argueing between us libertarians and republicans here is acedemic. That's the problem with socialism, it can't be undone, only a total colllapse of the system will enable right minded lovers of liberty to start anew. And socialist systems are doomed to failure because socialism is fundamentally flawed. Look for example at the immagration issue. Bush wouldn't stop it if he had a heart felt passion to do so, not that he does but if he did he could not. Why? not cheap labor or anything like that but Social Security. Indigenous Americans have not reproduced in enough numbers to keep that ponzi scheme going so we have to flood the country with foreigners ie. to expand the tax base. Why have Americans decided on small families? The cost of socialism - high taxes and inflation making the cost of children unmanagable. Couple that with the pill and abortion and wahlah! - shrinking popluation.
On a national level we're finished but the only hope is something like the Free State Project where if enough liberty minded folks took over a small state we could democratically restore limited government. It's a long shot but the only chance we have. My prognosis for the country may sound grim but remember nothing lasts forever. That's the one constant in human events. Perhaps we can salvage a little slice of what once was.
I have some more abstract observations that might spur some discussion.
My prediction is that the GOP will do nothing meaningful to advance the cause of liberty after their big election wins. By meaningfull, I'm talking about key issues to freedom -
Repeal the '68 Gun Control Act, the Clinton Crime Bill, the Brady Bill, and let the Assault Weapons Ban expire. Concealed carry without a permit, such as in Vermont, is a right all people have as human beings.
Begin to get the Federal government OUT of education. Start a discussion about the Constitutionality of the Income Tax, and completely privatize Social Security, as a start to abolishing both of them entirely.
Eliminate all campaign finance laws.
Get the Federal government out of drug enforcement.
Bring back the idea of the fully informed jury.
What's that you say? It can't happen? It's too extreme? I agree. That's because the once freedom-loving Republicans have been coopted over the years in an attempt to coopt their opponents. They've abandoned their principles little by little, ostensibly to get the power to really make change - and now they find themselves with the ball and still unable to do anything except pass a measly tax cut and hand out free prescription drugs to ensure voters for the next election.
Not Clintler, Not G.W., Not Ed Thompson are to be blamed. It's "We the People". Those collectivists who elect anyone "so that the other guy doesn't get in, so that their team wins" are just as guilty as the collectivists who elect someone so they can use the government to steal property from those who produce. The lack of public support for real change today is a great example of that. When you adopt an immoral, bankrupt philosophy, you lose.
Remember that it was Republicans who, just about 15-20 years ago, advanced the platform to abolish the Dept. of Education and the Dept. of Energy. Ask yourself if this could even be PROPOSED today, let alone passed, even with Republican control of the Presidency and Senate. Yes, the Republicans today are the Democrats of 40 years ago, and the Democrats today are the Socialist party of tomorrow. Most everyone will agree with this, and will realize that this inevitably leads us to hell regardless of which party is elected - but the "team" loyalty is too powerful.
In the near future, in the Republicans' attempting to explain away thier squandered opportunity, I expect to hear excuses of too many RINO's in the camp to pass anything meaningful. I also expect the Republicans to hail modest "accomplishments" as major victories (such as the "tax cut"). I expect to hear that voters today won't support the Republicans for true reform.
Well, when "Republican constituencies" won't support real change, what does this tell you? This is what happens when the game is all about compromise. Somewhere during the game you lost yourself, and it was from that moment on that you became a well-intentioned part of the problem.
I hold them in higher regard less contempt. Maybe.
I think not.
Libertarian candidate Michael Cloud garnered 19% of the vote in a two-way race with Senator John Kerry from Mass. There was no Republican in the race.
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