Posted on 06/25/2010 4:31:27 PM PDT by central_va
Open Message to Mr. Beck (self proclaimed historian). Tonight on your TV show you said that you read the Confederate Constitution and I paraphrase "it had slavery written all over it, all about slavery blah blah blah". You are incorrect sir, I did a word search on the document and the word slavery appears "one" time. Everyone can try it for themselves at the link provided below.
Can never trust a Yankee, even a goofy entertaining one.
To deny that Yankee land is not a hot bed of liberalism is to proclaim one’s idiocy.
I have not made such a proclamation — yet, I am being declared an idiot by those on both extremes. A fascinating position to be in — the fulcrum of balance and consideration. :-)
I'm not sure how your simply quoting a contemporary author on the subject, without any further citation or reference qualifies you to make such a statement. Do you have a primary source you'd like to bring forward to support the assertion that Sherman owned slaves, or is just the fact that "it's printed in a book" somewhere sufficent 'proof'?
“Good grief, since when are black liberation theorists considered historians?”
When they attack republicans from the north.
If anything I paid you a compliment in that you tried to provide an equivocal to pokie to cover for his dunderheaded comment. I certainly didn’t call you an idiot. Your southron compatriot is the one who did that.
Watch it AGAIN...becuase I just watched the segment for the THIRD time...what is posted in the original post isnt even what beck said AT ALL.
Segment two...from 2:30 to 3:50
David Barton said the title of the CS Constitution was "The Slave Holding Confederate States of America". The man lost all credibility. In a goof ball way Glenn nods in agreement. What a joke.
Sad, but true, the Civil War history we are taught in public school is outcome-based. Decided to broaden my horizons:)
Even Bennett does not claim his book as history.
I believe my statement says the book is by a historian. The author's position is based on his interpretation of historical documentation. As Beck liked to say, when promoting Arguing with Idiots: How to Stop Small Minds and Big Government, "It has pages and pages of footnotes". Forced Into Glory: Abraham Lincoln's White Dream has pages and pages of footnotes too.
Well you certainly broadened your horizons - right out into the lunatic fringe left field with dilorenzo or bennett. Neither are seriously regarded as historical texts (hysterical perhaps).
The Civil War history I was taught had bias but it wasn’t fiction.
Thank you for the link. I’m on the road when Beck comes on and hadn’t seen this episode.
Beck did an outstanding job here and he is spot on. I’m glad that there are those who refuse to allow revisionists to bury or pervert our history.
Fancy hearing from you. Does this mean we're speaking again? If so, good b/c want to share a good laugh w/ya.
My oldest sister has her PhD in edumacation. I know, I know, she got all the brains! She got burnt out on teaching/lecturing and works in a library now. She recommended I read Forced Into Glory: Abraham Lincoln's White Dream by Lerone Bennett Jr.
When I read your comment I called her and asked, "are you into black liberation theology/theory?" She was like, "Huh? What? Where did that come from?" I was laughing by that point and I shared your post with her. She started laughing. We appreciate all good laughs. She says to relay to you, "Lerone Bennett Jr. is considered a historian in some circles and a social historian in others, and yes, I am aware of his black liberation philosphy." Ya think she might would have shared that w/me, huh?! I won't relay what she would like you to know about about how people learn. I don't like her put downs either.
You can Google his name. He is indeed some kind of historian.
Well, these folks claim he is Black America's popular historian.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HST/is_1_6/ai_112084296/
The Civil War history I was taught had bias but it wasn’t fiction.
You're right it has bias but it isn't fiction.
Read my post to tonka_truck, if ya want a laugh, about how I came to read the book and what I now know about the author. LOL!!! Oh well, as my sister says, "You have to read some of everything to be well rounded." Sounds just like something a professor would say. I really did enjoy the read!
Forget it...you just want to argue...you’re are acting like glen personally attacked you when he’s talking about blck history being erased by progressives and southern DEMOCRATS. (Crim)
central_va,
I don't watch tv and haven't seen the show. Crim doesn't want to answer my question. Can you please fill me in? What does the Confederate Constitution have to do w/the founders?
There are some folks who claim that Øbozo is America's most popular president, too. That and a dollar won't buy you a cup of coffee most places.
You're right it has bias but it isn't fiction.
I said that the history I was taught in school wasn't fiction. I can't extend that appraisal to bennett's book.
Just as in the Civil War, the “lead” is flying from all sides. I cannot dodge it all. lol
The original point of this thread was that Beck OVERSTATED the role or importance of slavery in the Confederate Constitution. Indeed, I believe that is true. Others are not persuaded that is so.
Fine. let us acknowledge that there are intellectual, philosophical and interpretive differences in the historical facts and documents of the time. I think justifiably so, again, you may not. Okay. We shall agree to disagree at this juncture.
I’m not an idiot. I don’t consider any of you idiots. Some of you ARE “Yankees,” but am I justified in stereotyping? Are all Southerners (”Southrons” may be technically correct, but it’s always sounded so pretentious to me) hicks, hayseeds, hillbillies, or rednecks? Are we all “racists?” Please...
Can we get past all that crap? The politically correct nonsense is counterproductive. We are where we are now. North or South, East Coast or West, our nation is in a mess. So, what CAN we agree on to get it pointed in the right direction?!
Anything?
Lerone Bennett Jr. is a race hustler. You don’t need a PhD. to figure that out.
I think that what most bothers me about the placement of Beck amongst the principle figures of the recent conservative movement is the potential explosiveness of his historical gaffs. Here he is, having championed for months the name of George Whitefield as our nation's most important founding fellow and the greatest Christian since Christ himself, apparently completely unaware that old cross-eyes was likely the Eighteenth Century's most vocal proponent of slavery. The only reason a very large and significant part of the South even ever had slavery was because of Whitefield preaching his (and Beck's) particular brand of Christianity. Beck's understanding of history is just plain wrong and his advocacy of his views can damage the movement.
Your interpretation of this thread's premise is that Beck overstated the issue of slavery and you are quick to concede "We shall agree to disagree at this juncture." I'll reject that nicely, if you'll let me, but I'll reject nonetheless.
If the confederate constitution hadn't mentioned slavery, or if it had mentioned it once (or even twice!) then I would agree that it probably didn't figure prominently in their decision to split, and Beck was overstating. But they did - 17 times! You can niggle over the permutations and euphemisms if you want, but even so the count is way beyond what central-va claimed.
Next let's talk insults. I haven't scrutinized the thread with a fine-tooth comb but I do not recall anywhere anyone calling you an idiot (or any other names). Please feel free to correct me. I did call pokie's comment dunderheaded - which you apparently agree with or else you wouldn't have called him on it. Further, both central-va and pokie expressed blanket bigotry in all-encompassing statements (Can never trust a Yankee, even a goofy entertaining one - central-va)(Beck, like every other yankee, is a sick joke - pokie). No one uttered similar blanket statements towards anyone speaking from the confederate viewpoint (southron or otherwise). No one called you "idiot, hicks, hayseeds, hillbillies, or rednecks (or racist)".
Can we get past all that crap? The politically correct nonsense is counterproductive. We are where we are now. North or South, East Coast or West, our nation is in a mess. So, what CAN we agree on to get it pointed in the right direction?!
I haven't seen much in the way of PC here either. I don't think it's a problem. As for agreeing on things, it is my firm belief that we need to unseat the dhimmicrats and undo the damage they've done to our country. We can't accomplish that by tearing things apart. Therefore secession is the last option on my list. How about you?
I always allow for difference in interpretation however, there is simply no excuse for slavery even intimated in any of my posts. I stand amazed at your mental gymnastics performance.
It's inseparable and thus definitive
If slavery is inseperable and thus definitive of my Southern heritage, this also stands true for my American heritage. Slavery was not solely a Southern institution. The history of the American Indian, Irish, Catholics, Chinese, among others are others are also part of my American heritage. Using your logic, these events are inseperable and thus definitive of my American heritage. I choose to acknowledge all wrongs for what they were and to also see the good in my heritage, both Southern and American.
You can't have juleps on the veranda while men are being whipped on the back 40 and call it anything but a diabolical place.
Read much fiction? This is a fictional version of the antebellum South. The overwhelming majority of Southerners never had a veranda to sit on. There were wealthy slave owners who lived as you indicate, but were a minority of the population. Most Southerners toiled many an hour to provide nourishment for themselves and a semblance of a roof over their heads.
Absolutely, positively a sidestep and equivocation.
That is one mighty odd response to my statement (copied below for your convenience). Are you suggesting that Southerners were the only Americans who ever owned slaves?
To me, America's history of slavery is just that, America's history not solely a Southern legacy. (sss)
The originator of this thread by his own admission suggests that a couple more decades of slavery were better than a war to stamp it out. I'd call that (and his other assertions) consistent with a slaveholder's point of view
I've never known a slaveholder so don't believe I'm qualified to hypothesize as to one's pov. I can reasonably ascertain I wouldn't like it, but can't make any assumptions of that which I have never known. I see central_va's statement for what it is; his pov. I can't make the leap that you do in asserting he must have a slaveholder's pov and be the modern face of a slaveholder simply b/c I disagree w/his pov.
Based on your own statements, I can see why you feel that way, and I take a dim view of the opinion. Rationalizing 'your heritage' necessarily puts a class of people beneath you.
This in answer to I see no statements worthy of scorn or derision on this thread? I don't rationalize. I accept history for what it is. As I believe in equality, there are no "classes" of people beneath any other. To be more specific, I recoginize individuals and tend not to put individuals in "classes". Since you make "class" distinction I must take a dim view of your point.
Suggesting that blacks be confined to 'a few more decades of slavery' because it fits someone's ivory tower belief that it would have been better for the country is, in my view, the definition of bigotry. And I'd suggest that you don't see it because you agree with it.
I believe it would be helpful to you if you would review the definition of bigot again. One who has an opinion which differs from your's does not fit the definition. It is quite evident that you are intolerant of a pov which does not match yours. Again, I believe a review of the definition of bigot could be helpful to you. Your suggestion that I agree with what you state above is based on lack of knowledge, on your part, mixed with a few wild assumptions.
I don't have the time or desire to teach a course in history to unwilling students
I don't recall anyone signing up for a course. I do believe the manner in which you express yourself would prevent a constructive learning environment.
The slave mentality did then (and does now) need to be erased, permanently and completely. It was not.
I wish you much success in eradicating slave mentality.
One more thing, I am so thankful for this exchange. It reminds me how grateful I am that I don't go through life feeling the need to attach labels to my fellow man or to confine them to "classes". I am also greatful that I live absent all the negativity. Much obliged for the reminder.
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