Posted on 04/19/2010 8:18:35 AM PDT by erod
Hi FRiends,
I have two brothers who I love very much, they’re young and libertarian Ron Paul supporters, sigh. We get along and I’m hoping that one day they’ll come back to conservatism, but they have bought into a theory that I don’t think makes much sense:
Abe Lincoln was a dictator.
There are many websites dedicated to this nonsense you can Google "Abe Lincoln dictator" and get some weird stuff, if you want to check it out.
I need your help in busting this myth are there any books I can read on this subject to dispel this stuff? Do you know any of the arguments to combat this nonsense? Ie. Lincoln did not want to free the slaves.
Thanks for taking time out of your day to help me out, -Erod
Funny how history repeats itself, what excuse nest time for destruction?
How was the world going to be better with slavery enshrined by force of arms as a permanent feature of southern society?
“Read some history.”
It really does help. History teaches us that there were still slaves in Union during the hostilities. That the Confederacy had a vastly larger number of slaves is irrelevant. The degree to which one participates in the institution of slavery does NOT negate the fact that one participated.
You really don’t think slavery had anything to do with the war?
That’s an intellectually untenable position.
They did not have the right to fire the first shot or to seize federal property.
“Yes, the shrugged shoulders and faux agnosticism of the slavery defender.”
You’re once more attempting to argue from a position which cannot be supported. Again, follow the thread and then prove your accusation. You’ll find it is one which has no basis, no support. And that, once again, makes your statement a what? Care to reconsider?
No one has denied any of that.
Try to understand this point: the Union ended slavery. That's what they get credit for and that the South seceded from the union to preserve their slavery system redounds to their shame.
And those that still defend the institution over 100 years later are especially pitiful.
I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.
I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free. [7]
“And those that still defend the institution over 100 years later are especially pitiful”
There isn’t anyone defending slavery that I’m aware of.
Nope, no defenders, just people who think slavery is compassionate and Biblical.
You hate the Constitution. You hate the Declaration of Independence. You hate the country in every way, shape, and form. Thanks for clearing that up for us.
Well for two-thirds of your population anyway.
Slavery led to secession. Lincoln wanted to end slavery, but would have accepted re-union that contained slavery to the places where it already existed. That meant no expansion into the new territories.
The South could not abide that. They needed to have slaves wherever they went. That’s why Kansas was bloody. That’s why the seccession.
That’s why they fought the war.
“Nope, no defenders, just people who think slavery is compassionate and Biblical”
Ah, back to the compassion argument are you?
I would say I love them if they actually meant anything. As such, the way the Constitution is treated now it is actually harmful to freedom in that it acts like a fig leaf for the naked aggression of the state-ist.
Lincoln started us down the road FDR really got it going. The worst is the SCOTUS, a pure joke. How could affirmative action be upheld it doesn't even pass the laugh test. I deserve better. Don't get me started.
Awww. Ol' Innes didn't qualify his words, why should we believe you would? Hate, hate, hate.
Lincoln started us down the road FDR really got it going. The worst is the SCOTUS, a pure joke. How could affirmative action be upheld it doesn't even pass the laugh test. I deserve better. Don't get me started.
It's supposed to rain here next weekend. I suppose that's Lincoln's fault too.
I deserve better country men than you. I am not going to cling sentimentally to a defunct Constitution that hasn't been followed for a century and a half. I deserve better. Hopefully the current Illinois President will push into a Constitutional crises over the tenth amendment, I PRAY for it.
Let there be a time of choosing again.
(Matthew 18:8-9)
If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
My humble version:
If a state or states causes socialism, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for a Republic to go on maimed or crippled than to have all its states and together be thrown into the eternal fire of collectivism. And if the Federal Government causes you to sin; secede from it, peacefully hopefully but secede just the same.. It is better to govern as a sovereign state, smaller and diminished in power than to be thrown into the fire of centralized Federal usurpation
Your country deserves better citizens than you.
End the Occupation!
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