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Abe Lincoln was a dictator??? (Need Help combating loony argument)

Posted on 04/19/2010 8:18:35 AM PDT by erod

Hi FRiends,

I have two brothers who I love very much, they’re young and libertarian Ron Paul supporters, sigh. We get along and I’m hoping that one day they’ll come back to conservatism, but they have bought into a theory that I don’t think makes much sense:

Abe Lincoln was a dictator.

There are many websites dedicated to this nonsense you can Google "Abe Lincoln dictator" and get some weird stuff, if you want to check it out.

I need your help in busting this myth are there any books I can read on this subject to dispel this stuff? Do you know any of the arguments to combat this nonsense? Ie. Lincoln did not want to free the slaves.

Thanks for taking time out of your day to help me out, -Erod


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: abethetyrant; abigfatlie; abrahamlincoln; cleyburne; cubantroll; davisinadress; despot; dictator; dishonestabe; dunmoresproclamation; greatestpresident; greydiaperbabies; iwantmycbf; mybarnyardpet; nonsequiturisatroll; pocs; pos; randsconcerntrolls; souternretreads; southerntroll; southrons; tommydelusional; troll; tyrant; tyrantlincoln; warcriminal; whattheirfrnicks; whineyrebs; whitesupremacists; worstpresident; zotbait; zotjeffdavis; zotmenow
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To: Non-Sequitur

It’s safe, don’t worry. We made sure it was passed around.


1,261 posted on 04/29/2010 1:20:03 AM PDT by mojitojoe (“Our leaders seek to pit us against one another, and torment us relentlessly."Mark Levin)
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To: mojitojoe
Boy am I under your skin or what, lib?

Or what. You're the one who claims you have local FReepers feeding you information and pictures. I'm just giving you a chance to demonstrate your information gathering skills to your Lost Cause buddies.

1,262 posted on 04/29/2010 3:58:39 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: mojitojoe
I told you over and over, enough of the ebonics.

I'm gettin' that from my English/Southern, Southern/English dictionary.

1,263 posted on 04/29/2010 3:59:33 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: mojitojoe
It’s safe, don’t worry. We made sure it was passed around.

Of course you did.

1,264 posted on 04/29/2010 4:00:17 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: mojitojoe

that’s what I mean

this guy has no life what so ever unless you call sitting in front of a computer all day a life.
He’s not just on here but other sites too.

Sad, pathetic and indeed immature.


1,265 posted on 04/29/2010 4:36:01 AM PDT by manc (WILL OBAMA EVER GO TO CHURCH ON A SUNDAY OR WILL HE LET THE MEDIA/THE LEFT BE FOOLED FOR EVER)
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To: mac_truck
Yeah, and there's a barnyard animal involved too, something you KY ranchers get really excited about.

What is this obsession that you yankees have with perversion and homosexuality?

Must be a liberal thing......

1,266 posted on 04/29/2010 4:59:25 AM PDT by cowboyway (Molon labe)
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To: mojitojoe; southernsunshine; Idabilly; central_va
HE never leaves the computer and I mean never. Check his past posts.

And it goes back many, many years.

It begs the question, "What did this liberal web crawling slime do before the internet?"

1,267 posted on 04/29/2010 5:09:35 AM PDT by cowboyway (Molon labe)
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To: southernsunshine

Good morning, sunshine. :~)


1,268 posted on 04/29/2010 5:10:07 AM PDT by cowboyway (Molon labe)
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To: cowboyway

I think N-S is a shared account by paid leftwing operatives. Probably college students plus a few professors. I notice the N-S replies seem masculine sometimes then feminine other times....


1,269 posted on 04/29/2010 5:13:04 AM PDT by central_va ( http://www.15thvirginia.org)
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To: central_va; mojitojoe
Just ask mojitojoe. He claims to have a picture of me. Plus contacts in Kansas who supposedly know me.

Come on, MJ. Your buddies are puzzled and only you can help them.

1,270 posted on 04/29/2010 5:55:29 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: central_va; southernsunshine
I think N-S is a shared account by paid leftwing operatives. Probably college students plus a few professors. I notice the N-S replies seem masculine sometimes then feminine other times....

And also notice the occasional similarities between the 'ns' account and the shared accounts.

As far as the masculinity, or lack of, goes, I'm going to agree with southernsunshine that 'ns' is a total shelia. She even admits to driving a chic car!

I think that, whoever this 'ns' character is, it has multiple screen names and uses them as alter egos, as if the arrogant 'ns' ego isn't enough.

1,271 posted on 04/29/2010 5:56:13 AM PDT by cowboyway (Molon labe)
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To: cowboyway
Must be a liberal thing......

Not really brokeback...


1,272 posted on 04/29/2010 6:03:26 AM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: cowboyway; Idabilly; central_va; mojitojoe; manc

“She even admits to driving a chic car!”
Its...its....an Obama mobile! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


1,273 posted on 04/29/2010 6:57:21 AM PDT by southernsunshine
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To: mac_truck; cowboyway

Yoo-Hoo, tonka truck,

I’ll let you in on a little something, the only brokebacks around here don’t drive trucks.

Oh, by the way, have you already forgotten the question I asked you yesterday? Do I need to ask again?


1,274 posted on 04/29/2010 7:02:41 AM PDT by southernsunshine
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To: southernsunshine
Well, other than General Cleyburn, you have no clue what was on the mind of the Rebs in 1863, nor anyone else at any time, through the General’s writings. Pretty broad brush you use there.

Nonsense.

The Cleyburne proposal represents a distillation of the South's convergent military and political problems circa 1863. His views were made as a highly respected Major General in the Confederate Army of Tennessee, and were cosigned by over a dozen leading officers from various Confederate states. Given the nature of his proposal, and if there was a credible black confederate fighting force in existence to use as an example, Cleyburne would have used it. There was not.

The fact that some grey diapered crap weasels here today might disagree does NOTHING to alter the objective truth present in Cleyburne's writing. To suggest as you have, that Cleyburne's candid assessment of the South's circumstances and condition at that stage of he war was somehow inaccurate or 'clueless' is absurd and a pretty good window into your own (half empty) mindset.

1,275 posted on 04/29/2010 7:18:10 AM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: southernsunshine

was thinking when he drives it seeing as he’s always on here and other sites reporting back to his far lefty kooks on how he said whatever on a post.

You know when you think of it , how sad is it that he has to get laughs gong on a website which he disagrees on basically everything and then goes away like a little boy saying what he’;s done

bizarre


1,276 posted on 04/29/2010 7:18:26 AM PDT by manc (WILL OBAMA EVER GO TO CHURCH ON A SUNDAY OR WILL HE LET THE MEDIA/THE LEFT BE FOOLED FOR EVER)
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To: manc
He's a rootin’ tootin’ damn leftist, for sure!

He advocates disenfranchising “The People” by Court order or military force.. I wonder his take on Arizona? Hell, he's probable out protesting with his/it's friends from ‘code pink’.........

1,277 posted on 04/29/2010 7:46:55 AM PDT by Idabilly (Oh, southern star how I wish you would shine.)
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To: Idabilly

I’m sure he wears pink a lot too.


1,278 posted on 04/29/2010 7:54:11 AM PDT by manc (WILL OBAMA EVER GO TO CHURCH ON A SUNDAY OR WILL HE LET THE MEDIA/THE LEFT BE FOOLED FOR EVER)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Marx may have 'defined' but Davis implemented. His government took control of industries like textiles, liquor, and salt from the owners, telling them what to produce and how much the government would pay for it. They placed a levy on private farmers, forcing them to raise produce for government use without compensation. They forced private ship owners to reserve a large percentage of their cargo room for government cargo without compensation. Davis imposed his government into peoples lives in ways Lincoln would never imagined. Maybe Marx got a lot of his best ideas from Davis? The big government socialist from the word go.

Let's examine the reasons for this. Richard Franklin Bensel, in his "Yankee Leviathan, The Origins of Central State Authority in America, 1859-1877," says the following:

Only when efforts to harness existing productive potential are not sufficient to meet the challenge presented by the enemy do states attempt to innovate or go beyond the prewar forms of societal production. In terms of material capacity and manpower potential, the Union did not face such a challenge in the Civil War and the war effort became a more-or-less capitalistic, market-oriented response to the requirements of mobilization, well within the potential of northern society and well molded into its forms and structures. By contrast, the Confederate war effort far outstripped the productive capabilities of the prewar economy and compelled a much more innovative, almost futuristic mobilization of resources. As a consequence, the southern mobilization was much more state-centered and coordinated than its northern counterpart.

You mentioned salt. Here was the Southern situation on salt [Link]:

Shortages of salt prevented women from preserving enough meat to last the winter. Until the war most salt had been imported as ballast on ships, but the Union blockade severely restricted this vital commodity. Domestic salt works developed, but the collapse of the Confederate rail networks prevented sufficient distribution to meet everyone's needs. Between May 1861 and October 1862 the price of salt skyrocketed over 1200 percent.

In addition to the critical preservation of food for the population and the army, salt was also crucial to the recovery of soldiers from wounds, the dying of cloth for uniforms, and the tanning of leather. Given salt's importance, the Confederacy exempted workers at salt works from conscription. From the above link:

The government intended that exemptions would protect government employees and people with certain indispensable skills from the draft without the need to purchase a substitute. Soon protected businesses such as salt works, apothecaries, and schoolhouses of dubious quality sprang up all across the South.

The North too recognized the importance of salt to the Southern war effort and launched many attacks on Southern salt works.

1,279 posted on 04/29/2010 8:04:37 AM PDT by rustbucket
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To: manc
this guy has no life what so ever unless you call sitting in front of a computer all day a life.

You made 80 posts yesterday and I made 50. Yet I'm the one who has no life except for sitting in front of a computer all day?

Sad, pathetic and indeed immature.

Indeed.

1,280 posted on 04/29/2010 8:06:37 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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