DOH indirectly confirms: Factcheck COLB date filed and certificate number impossible

Butterdezillion | Feb 23, 2010 | Butterdezillion

[butterdezillion]

I've updated my blog to include the e-mail from Janice Okubo confirming that they assign birth certificate numbers in the state registrar's office and the day they do that is the "Date filed by state registrar".

The pertinent portion from Okubo's e-mail:

In regards to the terms “date accepted” and “date filed” on a Hawaii birth certificate, the department has no records that define these terms. Historically, the terms “Date accepted by the State Registrar” and “Date filed by the State Registrar” referred to the date a record was received in a Department of Health office (on the island of O’ahu or on the neighbor islands of Kaua’i, Hawai’i, Maui, Moloka’i, or Lana’i), and the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office located on the island of O’ahu) respectively.

MY SUMMARY: As you can see, Okubo said that the “Date filed by the State Registrar” is the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office).

There are no pre-numbered certificates. A certificate given a certificate number on Aug 8th (Obama’s Factcheck COLB) would not be given a later number than a certificate given a number on Aug 11th (the Nordyke certificates).

There is no way that both the date filed and the certificate number can be correct on the Factcheck COLB. The COLB is thus proven to be a forgery.

[BP2]

The LANGUAGE used on Obama's CertificaTION of Live Birth — as well as that of Hawaii §338 — is *CRITICAL* in understanding what's happened here.

Words mean things. And it's very simple:

"Date FILED" obviously does NOT mean "Date ACCEPTED".

"Filed" means it was modified and filed in some manner after the original "birth certificate" was Accepted. Hawaii §338 permits this.

The "State Registrar" falls under the Office of Vital Statistics, which falls under the Department of Health. Further, Adoption or ANY other Judge Order from the Hawaii Family Court can SEAL and modify "birth certificate" information.

Again, Adoption is one justification, but a Judge can sign ANY order to "protect the privacy of the child", EVEN if that child is now an adult over the age of 18. Affidavits ALSO go a LONG way toward modifying a "birth certificate" in Hawaii under § 578-14 and § 578-15.

§338-15 Late or altered certificates. A person born in the State may FILE or amend a certificate after the time prescribed, upon submitting proof as required by rules adopted by the department of health. Certificates registered after the time prescribed for filing by the rules of the department of health shall be registered subject to any evidentiary requirements that the department adopts by rule to substantiate the alleged facts of birth.

Attorney General Opinions: Section provides for the alteration of only birth certificates. Att. Gen. Op. 84-14.

§338-16 Procedure concerning late and altered birth certificates. (a) Birth certificates registered one year or more after the date of birth, and certificates which have been altered after being FILEd with the department of health, shall contain the date of the late filing and the date of the alteration and be marked distinctly “late” or “altered”.

(b) A summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for late filing or the alteration shall be endorsed on the certificates.

(c) Such evidence shall be kept in a special permanent FILE.

§338-17 Late or altered certificate as evidence. The probative value of a “late” or “altered” certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence.

§338-17.5 Judicial procedure to establish facts of birth. (a) If a delayed certificate of birth is rejected under section 338-16, a petition may be FILEd with the circuit court for an order establishing a record of the date and place of the birth and the parentage of the person whose birth is to be registered.

(b) The petition shall be accompanied by a statement of the registration official made in accordance with section 338-16(d) and all documentary evidence which was submitted to the registration official in support of such registration.

(c) The court shall fix a time and place for hearing the petition and shall give the registration official who refused to register the petitioner’s delayed certificate of birth fifteen days’ notice of said hearing. Such official, or the official’s authorized representative, may appear and testify in the proceeding.

(d) If the court from the evidence presented finds that the person for whom a delayed certificate of birth is sought was born in this State, it shall make findings as to the place and date of birth, parentage, and such other findings as the case may require and shall issue an order to establish a record of birth.

(e) The clerk of the court shall forward a copy of the order to the state registrar of vital statistics not later than the 10th day of the calendar month following the month in which it was entered. Such order shall be registered by the state registrar of vital statistics in accordance with section 338-13.

§338-17.7 Establishment of new certificates of birth, when. (a) The department of health shall establish, in the following circumstances, a new certificate of birth for a person born in this State who already has a birth certificate FILEd with the department and who is referred to below as the “birth registrant”:

(1) Upon receipt of an affidavit of paternity, a court order establishing paternity, or a certificate of marriage establishing the marriage of the natural parents to each other, together with a request from the birth registrant, or the birth registrant’s parent or other person having legal custody of the birth registrant, that a new birth certificate be prepared because previously recorded information has been altered pursuant to law;

(2) Upon receipt of a certified copy of a final order, judgment, or decree of a court of competent jurisdiction that determined the nonexistence of a parent and child relationship between a person identified as a parent on the birth certificate on FILE and the birth registrant;

(3) Upon receipt of a certified copy of a final adoption decree, or of an abstract of the decree, pursuant to sections 338-20 and 578-14;

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

§338-20 Adoption. (a) In case of the adoption of any person born in the State, the department of health, upon receipt of a properly certified copy of the adoption decree, or certified abstract thereof on a form approved by the department, shall prepare a supplementary certificate in the name of the adopted person, as fixed or changed by the decree, and seal and FILE the original certificate of birth with the certified copy attached thereto.

(b) The registrar of births shall show on the supplemental birth certificate the names of parents as stated in the adoption decree pursuant to section 578-14.

(c) Any certified copy of final decree of adoption, or abstract thereof, of persons born in the State, rendered by courts of other states and territories subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, or courts of a foreign country, shall be considered properly certified when attested by the clerk of the court in which it was rendered with the seal of the court annexed, if there be a seal, together with a certificate of the presiding judge, chancellor, or magistrate that the attestation is in due form.

(d) If no original certificate of birth shall be on FILE with the department, the department may require such evidence as it deems necessary to establish the facts of birth before preparing a supplementary certificate in the new name of the adopted person; provided that no such certificate shall be FILEd unless it shall be satisfactorily established that the adopted person was born in the State.

(e) The sealed documents may be opened by the department only by an order of a court of record or when requested in accordance with section 578-14.5 or 578-15. Upon receipt of a certified copy of a court order setting aside a decree of adoption, the department shall restore the original certificate to its original place in the FILEs.

§338-20.5 Adoption; foreign born persons.

(a) The department of health shall establish a Hawaii certificate of birth for a person born in a foreign country and for whom a final decree of adoption has been entered in a court of competent jurisdiction in Hawaii, when it receives the following:

- snip -

(d) If no original certificate of birth shall be on FILE with the department, the department may require such evidence as it deems necessary to establish the facts of birth before preparing a supplementary certificate in the new name of the adopted person; provided that no such certificate shall be FILEd unless it shall be satisfactorily established that the adopted person was born in the State.

(e) The sealed documents may be opened by the department only by an order of a court of record or when requested in accordance with section 578-14.5 or 578-15. Upon receipt of a certified copy of a court order setting aside a decree of adoption, the department shall restore the original certificate to its original place in the FILEs.

§ 578-14. Record of adoption.

(a) A certified copy of the decree of adoption, or a certified abstract thereof on a form approved by the department of health, after the decree has become effective, shall be sent to the department. The department shall cause to be made a new record of the birth in the name of the individual, as fixed or changed by the decree, with the names of the adoptive parents and, upon request of both adoptive parents, or the sole adoptive parent if there is only one, that the name or names of either or both of the natural parents appear on the certificate, with the name of a natural parent who consents to be named on the certificate.

(b) If a new birth certificate is issued, the original birth certificate shall be sealed and FILEd with the decree or the abstract thereof, and the sealed package shall be opened only as provided in section 578-15(b).

§ 578-15. Secrecy of proceedings and records

(a) The records in adoption proceedings, after the petition is filed and prior to the entry of the decree, shall be open to inspection only by the parties or their attorneys, the director of human services or the director's agent, or by any proper person on a showing of good cause therefor, upon order of the court. Except in the case of an individual being adopted by a person married to the legal father or mother of the individual or unless authorized by the court, no petition for adoption shall set forth the name of the individual sought to be adopted or the name of either of the parents of the individual; provided that the legal name of the individual and the name of each of the individual's legal parents may be added to the petition by amendment during the course of the hearing thereof and shall be included in the decree. The hearing of the petition shall be in chambers and shall not be open to the public.

(b) Upon the entry of the decree, or upon the later effective date of the decree, or upon the dismissal or discontinuance or other final disposition of the petition, the clerk of the court shall seal all records in the proceedings; provided that upon the written request of the petitioner or petitioners, the court may waive the requirement that the records be sealed. The seal shall not be broken and the records shall not be inspected by any person, including the parties to the proceedings, except:

(1) Upon order of the family court upon a showing of good cause;

(2) For adoptions which occurred prior to January 1, 1991, after the adopted individual attains the age of eighteen and upon submission to the family court of a written request for inspection by the adopted individual or the adoptive parents in accordance with the following:

(A) Within sixty calendar days after receipt of a request for inspection, the family court, by certified mail with return receipt requested, shall mail to the last known address of each natural parent a notice of the request for inspection of adoption records, a copy of the request for inspection and copies of any accompanying letters, photographs, or other documents submitted in support of the request. The notice shall inform the natural parent that unless an affidavit signed by the natural parent requesting confidentiality is received by the family court within sixty calendar days of the date of receipt of the notice, the natural parent will be deemed to have waived any rights of confidentiality and the records shall be subject to inspection by the adopted individual or the adoptive parent who submitted the request. The notice shall also inform the natural parent that an affidavit requesting confidentiality for a period of ten years may be filed. A blank affidavit to be completed and signed by the natural parent shall be mailed with the notice;

(B) If the family court has received a return receipt for the notice but an affidavit requesting confidentiality is not received by the family court within sixty calendar days of the date of receipt of the notice, the family court shall allow inspection under this section;

(C) If the notice is returned as undeliverable to a natural parent, the family court shall designate an agent or agency to conduct a good faith and diligent search to locate the natural parent and to provide the notice and all other documents required under subparagraph (A). The search shall extend over a period not to exceed one hundred eighty calendar days. Contacts with natural parents by a designated agent or agency under this section shall be personal, whenever possible, and confidential. The family court shall provide the designated agent or agency with a copy of the request for inspection and copies of any accompanying letters, photographs, or other documents submitted in support of the request, and the designated agent or agency shall present the copies to the natural parent when contacted. The family court and the designated agent or agency shall ensure that no person other than a natural parent or the agent or agency through which a natural parent obtained assistance for the adoption is informed of the adoptive individual's existence and the relationship to the natural parent;

(D) If a natural parent cannot be located after the search conducted under subparagraph (C), the family court shall allow inspection under this section;

(E) If an affidavit requesting confidentiality is received by the family court within sixty calendar days of the date of receipt of the notice provided under subparagraph (A) or (C), the family court shall not allow inspection during the effective period of the affidavit;

(F) If a ten-year affidavit is filed under subparagraph (E), the natural parent may refile affidavits every ten years thereafter to maintain confidentiality, or the natural parent may file an affidavit effective for the remainder of the natural parent's lifetime. All affidavits subsequent to the initial affidavit may be filed within ninety calendar days before the last effective day of the initial affidavit. If there is no effective affidavit on file with the family court at the time a request for inspection is received by the court, the court shall allow inspection under this paragraph;

(G) An affidavit requesting confidentiality shall be effective until the last day of the period for which the affidavit was filed, until the natural parent revokes the affidavit, or until the natural parent is deceased, whichever occurs sooner; and

(H) Where two natural parents are involved and confidentiality is waived under this paragraph by only one natural parent, the inspection of the records shall not include any identifying information concerning the other natural parent;

[Danae]

I agree with what you have said, however, if Regan had made his records available to reporters, then reporters called the hospital to see if these were the accurate records, they would confirm that. HDOH hasn't even come close to saying that what is posted online is even accurate. All they have done is put a representative out there to say they have seen the recordS, and that he was born in Hawaii. Well thats nice and all, but means nothing. Reporters, citizens, congressmen name who you like, no one has gotten Hawaii to confirm that the COLB that is online and pointed to by Obama as being real, IS REAL, and that the information that is on it is accurate. Not a peep. We don't have anything other than a picture of a document to go on, and you cannot prove one way or another that a picture of a thing actually IS what it appears to be. Take a dollar bill, copy it on a high-resolution color copier, cut it out, then paste it onto a stiffer piece of paper, take a picture of it. That picture will look real, and you can't prove anything from it. The picture of the fake dollar might look real, but the dollar is still fake and you can't prove it. If Hawaii verified that the information ON that FactCheck COLB is accurate, that would be a different ball of wax, and if it were indeed real, then Obama himself made it available, gave it to the press etc. Its not like someone stole it and them took pictures of it and put it on the internet.... Not even close, Obama made it available. Yet somehow Hawaii is bound by privacy laws when all right to privacy regarding the document has been relinquished? No. That just does not add up. It doesn't add up at all.

[butterdezillion]

Actually, it doesn’t confirm that they are taken from the DOH. The DOH should have received all 3 certificates on Friday, Aug 11th, and the Nordyke and Obama announcements should both have been in all the Hawaii newspapers that week, if the DOH printed out a master list for the week.

I can’t give any details yet, but look for a story soon on those announcements. Interesting stuff.

[little jeremiah]

Without courage, all other virtues are useless. Those waving the white flag are either cowards or traitors.

[parsifal]

But if you have a copy of the document, then you don’t need a copy from them. The implied consent argument is really just a “please confirm this for me” request. Which they can’t do.

You’re saying to them:

Obama gave the country a copy, so now you give me a copy,too.

then,

Oh, you can’t give me my own copy, then can you confirm the info on it?

Well, I have seen it, we have it in the records, and he was born in Hawaii, but no I can’t give you a copy or confirm the information for you.

IMHO, there is nothing here that is contradictory, or even suspicious.

parsy

[parsifal]

But if you have a copy of the document, then you don’t need a copy from them. The implied consent argument is really just a “please confirm this for me” request. Which they can’t do.

You’re saying to them:

Obama gave the country a copy, so now you give me a copy,too.

then,

Oh, you can’t give me my own copy, then can you confirm the info on it?

Well, I have seen it, we have it in the records, and he was born in Hawaii, but no I can’t give you a copy or confirm the information for you.

IMHO, there is nothing here that is contradictory, or even suspicious.

parsy

[little jeremiah]

It wasn’t her father. It was some retired teacher who all of a sudden - last Novemeber - “remembered” an incident that “happened” in 1961, she met with a friend and the friend’s father, who was a doc, and supposedly remembered “Stanley had a baby” etc.

Turned out he had retired from active practice in 1956, and was conveniently deceased.

Fred knows, it was brought up again recently. In the “debunked” category.

[little jeremiah]

Your comments are really feeble. If you’re getting paid, and not just a volunteer, you need much better talking points. Ask your supervisor for a better list.

[Danae]

I explained this earlier. In Hawaii you have several islands, each is considered a county. So there are county offices that all birth records are sent to. The county registrar dates when the document enters State hands. That is the “Date Received By Local Registrar” Or shortened to Date RECEIVED. The docs were then sent to the main office in Oahu, which according to Okubo in her email, is the only place that Certificate numbers were assigned. They were assigned on the “Date Accepted By the State”, and given there FILING number, or AKA Certificate Number. That is seen on a COLB as “Date Filed by the Registrar”

Because most births in Hawaii happen on Oahu, those two dates were nearly always the same. So the terms got used interchangeably, and inaccurately for years, even the staff at DOH lost track, everyone knew what it meant anyway. It wasn’t necessary to split hairs so no one did.

Shoot they even lost track of why there were two separate entries for the most part, and with the electronic age, documents could be processed the same day no matter where you were in the islands, the knowledge slipped even further into the past.

Filed means the record for a File Number, a Certificate Number, and was entered into the permanent record. Accepted means it entered into states hands but does not yet have a File (Certificate) number.

[DJ MacWoW]

Your memory is better than mine. lol I remember when it was first brought up. I laughed. I hadn’t read about the Dr being retired before 0’s birth. Thanks for the refresher.

[Danae]

Shoot dude, they don’t have to give me a copy, just confirm that the information online matches Hawaii’s Records and is a legitimate Certificate in terms of the information that’s on it.

(crickets)

[danamco]

I dedicate this YouTube to ALL “BIRTHER” also called CONSTITUTIONALISTS. See the very last paragraph on the scrolling text after the song!

To all you Freeper “AFTER-BIRTHERS”-hacks, be aware, this is NOT going to go away as you like it to!!

Enjoy, the truth will come out!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXAcHtdU3nY

[DJ MacWoW]

I am constantly stunned at the number of “freepers” that defend Obamas eligibility. He has lied about everything. And yet they believe that in this instance, he’s being truthful. He has hidden his life for a reason and they just cannot grasp that it’s because of a dishonest purpose.

[Jedidah]

So assuming any of the legal maneuvers mentioned in your post actually occurred, wouldn’t there be some paper trail, even just a log on a court docket? Needle in a haystack stuff?

Full release of the records might be impossible, but it seems to me that it would be mighty hard to scrub all mention of all proceedings, particularly when other records may be listed on the same pages in archives.

Some of this should be accessible to the public. Are there boots on the ground digging in Honolulu?

[little jeremiah]

Your false hilarity grows thin. A mite weak and shrill, and is fooling fewer and fewer people.

And if by chance you personally are overwhelmed with mirth, the destruction of the rule of law and the Constitution, by a marxist usurper, isn’t actually a laughing matter. To sane people.

[ilovesarah2012]

Does a candidate have to provide a certified birth certificate to run for president?

[BP2]

> You’re saying to them:
> Obama gave the country a copy, so now you give me a copy, too.

Parsley, Obama did not give "the country a copy."
Do you think it's sitting in the National Archive for public inspection?!

Obama's Chicago campaign gave TWO hand-picked partisan hacks (below) a copy of his "birth certificate," which now reportedly resides back with Obama's staff.

I know YOU IMPLICITLY TRUST Obama. A Sucker is born every minute — one of them goes by the name "parsifal."

But Obama has a CONSISTENT record of LYING. HE IS CORRUPT.

Obama is not worthy of ANYONE'S TRUST in this country,
especially sniveling Liberals like yourself.

The truth about Obama's birth certificate (FactCheck.org)
–by Jess Henig, with Joe Miller

Jess Henig has an M.A. in English Literature.
Joe Miller has a Ph. D. in Political Philosophy.

[butterdezillion]

There are other reasons to suspect that the word “Filed” doesn’t mean “Accepted” also. The “Office Use Only” portion of the form to request a birth certificate shows indices for HBC (Hawaiian BC), DBC (delayed BC), NR (no records), and Pending. The office worker is supposed to check off which indices they’ve checked for a BC.

Hawaii statute also provides for the state registrar to send back certificates which aren’t complete and are not being actively pursued. Those are documents they have at the state registrar’s office - presumably in a file - but that have not been accepted as having legal veracity.

The DOH’s own Rules of Practice and Procedure say that “Date filed” is the day that a record is received in the office - unless it is received after 4:30, in which case it is “filed” the next business day.

[pissant]

And Joe Miller is a certified leftwing hack, as I demonstrated on a thread last summer.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2303121/posts

[butterdezillion]

But their own ADministrative Rules say they can give anybody who asks for it a non-certified copy of the abbreviated birth certificate (COLB).

So there is no reason for them to say they can’t give it to me. Why, then, do they refuse to follow their rules and the law which requires them to release any documents authorized for release?