DOH indirectly confirms: Factcheck COLB date filed and certificate number impossible

Butterdezillion | Feb 23, 2010 | Butterdezillion

[butterdezillion]

I've updated my blog to include the e-mail from Janice Okubo confirming that they assign birth certificate numbers in the state registrar's office and the day they do that is the "Date filed by state registrar".

The pertinent portion from Okubo's e-mail:

In regards to the terms “date accepted” and “date filed” on a Hawaii birth certificate, the department has no records that define these terms. Historically, the terms “Date accepted by the State Registrar” and “Date filed by the State Registrar” referred to the date a record was received in a Department of Health office (on the island of O’ahu or on the neighbor islands of Kaua’i, Hawai’i, Maui, Moloka’i, or Lana’i), and the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office located on the island of O’ahu) respectively.

MY SUMMARY: As you can see, Okubo said that the “Date filed by the State Registrar” is the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office).

There are no pre-numbered certificates. A certificate given a certificate number on Aug 8th (Obama’s Factcheck COLB) would not be given a later number than a certificate given a number on Aug 11th (the Nordyke certificates).

There is no way that both the date filed and the certificate number can be correct on the Factcheck COLB. The COLB is thus proven to be a forgery.

[BuckeyeTexan]

our entire premise is that the local registrar sat on all the certs, issued the numbers all on the same day

Wrong again. That wasn't my premise.

[Aurorales]

Kind of a blur...LOL

Yummy hospital food, breast feeding so no alcohol. And of course brand new mommy at age 20.

To be honest I was freaking out!

[butterdezillion]

Good idea.

I think I’ll just keep asking for the apology he owes me and the communications he says he received from Okubo a while back but refuses to post.

Given that he said the communicaton directly contradicted what Okubo said in this e-mail, I would think this would be the best time for him to come forward with it. Or at least the date and approximate time he made the communication.

A bit ironic that he says I’m making stuff up.

[STARWISE]

Two slightly different statements:

---

“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen

the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.

I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago....”

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm

~~~

Fukino: “have seen the original vital records”

“and is a natural-born American citizen.”

***

vital records is purposely vague .. and I don’t
believe she, as a state agency employee, has the
judicial authority to pronounce Constitutional
eligibility clearance for a POTUS, unless so
questioned officially from a legal/govt entity
under oath.

AND

“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures,” Fukino said.”

http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html

~~~

Fukino: “have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate”

***

which does NOT give specific rendering of specific
qualifying detail of type/origin of birth certificate.

[EnderWiggins]

"It isn’t a hospital registrar. The registrar is a local functionary, an employee of the state."

Wrong.

The "Alan" long form from Tripler Army Hospital has a military officer (a LTC) listed as the local registrar, and his branch is Medical Service Corps. He was definitely a hospital employee and not an employee of the State.

[bgill]

Yes, I understand that things come in stacks and multiple clerks grabbing a handful of numbers as they need them, but this is different. As was said before you can’t have a number that falls before the date it was filed.

Back in my day, before the digital age there was one stamp. One stamp. Only just the one stamp. The reason for that is so there wouldn’t be mess ups where numbers were skipped or duplicated. Babies are a bit more important than cars. Documents came in and they were time and date stamped. With the one stamp. Sure, back at the place of origin they could have been stacked and accumulated until Friday or it was in the mail for a few days. That’s fine for the received (or accepted) stamp, but that’s not the problem with the COLB. We need to look at the information at the time it was FILED.

Then when it was filed (or recorded), it was given a number again from one stamp and only one stamp. One clerk manually stamped it. One clerk would file it on it’s particular page and index it - in numerical order.

Ok, say only two births came in that week. One was filed on Wednesday and numbered 37. Regardless of the when the second one came in (the day it came in doesn’t matter if it was the same day or a month before because we’re only concerned with the file date) it was filed on Thursday. What number would it get? 24? Uh, nooooo because 24 would have been assigned to a birth many days before. The only number it could have would be AFTER the one that was filed previously.

[Beckwith]

I don’t take orders from people that are on drugs.

[mojitojoe]

10. I’m sorry, but the idea that Obama’s certificate sat forgotten in a Department of Health clerk’s office until AFTER the Nordyke twins’ certificates were stamped with a number seems unbelievable to me
______________
Hey, old *uckeye just throws crap and hopes some of it sticks.

[bgill]

Each clerk was likely given a set of certificate numbers that she could use to stamp the BC. They could even have been assigned their own book of certificate numbers so they didn’t have to obtain a new set so often.

That is not how I filed and recorded births.

[mojitojoe]

He’s an Obot, fishing for information. The more we give his, the better prepared they are to stop efforts to expose him. What they do NOT realize is that all of the really good stuff the investigators have is never posted on the open forum.

[EnderWiggins]

"The LONG form, which you will see pictured IN-PART (I am protecting myself and family) you can see the different boxes and I explain them."

I see them. But they do not say what Okubo was talking about.

Okuba talked about a difference between "Recieved by the State" (Not by the local registrar) and "Accepted by the State."

Yours does not have "Received by the State" anywhere.

[BuckeyeTexan]

In the particular scenario that you mention, which is only one of my theories, the hospital registrar signs Obama’s cert on the 8th and puts it in her outgoing box. It sits there along with any others she was able to sign as completed. Then on the 11th, she signs and stamps the twins’ certs and tosses them on the top of the stack in her outbox.

At some point, maybe the same day, she takes the whole stack from the outbox and slips it into a package to be mailed or couriered to the county/state registrar’s office.

A clerk at the state registrar’s office takes the paperwork out the envelope, package, whatever and plops the stack in her incoming tray. Obama’s cert from the 8th is near the bottom of the stack. The twins’ certs from the 11th are at the top of the stack. The clerk starts processing the paperwork from the top of the stack. Thus the twins’ certs get assigned numbers before Obama’s cert.

[STARWISE]

He and Lugar (along with Fatty Gibbs) were
detained a few hours when they were in
Russia .. passports taken.

It would’ve been a senatorial passport, but
still interesting to consider what the Ruskies
know.

[BuckeyeTexan]

It wasn’t an order. It was an invitation.

[Danae]

That is a member of the military. On a US Military Base Hospital. Wanna bet that is the case in all US Military Base Hospitals? Kapiolani is not a US military hospital on a US Base. Neither is Queens. Either way, explain my long form has a different date between when my dr signed it and it got accepted and filed. Explain the military birth date differences from a poster replying to me up thread. Explain why there is no embossed certifying seal on the dupty’s signature. Explain why there is no “witness” statment anywhere on the thing. Because they weren’t witnessing anything. Hey were noting that a document had entered a state office. The dr. Was verifying the birth. There was no one verifying that the dr was verifying the birth.

You lose Eggie.

[BuckeyeTexan]

I think you’re probably right that the hospital/local registrar’s signature wasn’t attesting to the doc’s signature.

[EnderWiggins]

"I changed nothing on the e-mail."

Thanks. That's all I asked.

"I think you owe me an apology."

For what? For claiming that the Hawaii DOH admitted something they still have never admitted? Sorry. No apology is deserved.

"And I’m still waiting to see the communications you received from Okubo."

I know you are... but my source is not Okubo. As we have seen here, Okubo's detailed expertise is rather lacking, since her explanation here actually reflects nothing that is found on Hawaiian birth certificates, either long or short form. She is a public relations person, and while doing her level headed best, she just doesn't have the hands on experience to get it quite right. Remember he saying months ago that they went "paperless" when she actually meant they went "computerized?"

The "explanation" you have posted here is at such variance with the actual documents that we know it is useless. That's why my source is an actual clerk at the DOH, a guy who (though not present in 1961) has a pretty good handle on the process in the 80s and late 70s.

I had a West Point classmate who retired to Hawaii personally go down to the DOH and speak to the clerks. This is what he wrote me back: -----------------------

"I spent about two and a half hour this afternoon at the Department of Health on Punchbowl Street. They passed me around to a couple of different clerical folks until they found someone in the health status monitoring office who handled birth certificates back in the early 80. His name was XXXXXXX.

He said that there were no copies of old procedures that he knew of, so he could not show me anything from the 60s. He said that nobody there had been around long enough to remember for sure what they did in the 60s. He did say that until the registration system went on-line (first at the Department of Health and then connected to hospital “ADT” systems a few years later) there were actually different procedures used to get the records from different outer islands at the same time, and they were not finally standard until some time after he arrived.

I asked him where the numbers were assigned, and he said it depended. For a number of years, hospitals with busy oby/gn practices got preassigned blocks of numbers from the state so that they wouldn’t duplicate each other. For a while before he got there the state actually issued hospitals the stamps that had those blocks of numbers in them, but that became too expensive, so they went back to just assigning the blocks.

Once the paperwork got to Honolulu, the numbers were entered into the state ledgers and the certificates filed. When I asked him if there was a local number too, he said no. The state number was the local number, so you could right to the hospital and find the same record under the same number.

When I asked him your question about how the hospital assigned the numbers he said he had no idea, he had never worked in one. He did figure that different hospitals would use different systems.

Let me know if you need me to go back. I don’t get to the city much since XXXXXXXX retired.

You say Ciao, we say Aloha,

XXXXXXXX"

[EnderWiggins]

"No, we both got half answers until Butter forced their hands. Personally I don’t think they wanted to give that information out."

Those weren't half answers, Danae. They were different answers.

[MilspecRob]

They’re already doing outright fraud. I’ve had the proof of it posted on my blog for over a month now and I’m still waiting for all he!! to break loose.

Could be waiting a while....

Yes quite a while. I thought blog pimping was frowned upon at Free Republic.

[patlin]

1963?

Did I miss seeing a cert?