Posted on 03/21/2009 6:26:13 AM PDT by cowboyway
ATLANTA — In a cultural war that has pitted Old South against new, defenders of the Confederate legacy have opened a fresh front in their campaign to polish an image tarnished, they said, by people who do not respect Southern values.
With the 150th anniversary of the War Between the States in 2011, efforts are under way in statehouses, small towns and counties across the South to push for proclamations or legislation promoting Confederate history.
(Excerpt) Read more at courant.com ...
When the South seceded they walked away from their share of the national debt, stole every bit of federal property they could get their hands on, repudiated responsibility for obligations the country entered into while they were a part, and were in a position to block access to the sea for the central part of the country. And in your insane world there was nothing that the remaining states could do to prevent it. Completely asinine.
Don't start a war, instead send out peace delegations and act civilized, presto chango borders open, See not that hard.
Why not try that instead of initiating hostilities by bombarding Sumter into surrender?
Not only that the wife leaves, goes to the gun store, buys a gun. The husband see this as an act of aggression beats the hell out of her, tells the world she started it.
I swear, you two just get crazier and crazier with every post you make. People wonder why I join in on posts like this and I answer that you can't buy comic relief like what you two provide us for free.
Ok, that brings us right up today's issues my FRiend, I feel no obligation to Pelosi, Ried and Obama to pay the tab for their statist socialist experiment, they are running up bill's their and your butt can't pay. You are right with them, way to go, you have nice friends.
The assumption that I have to go along with that voluntarily is wrong, it takes the threat of violence to make me pay the federal bills which also takes me back to the wife beater apology.
PS: there was no deficit in 1860.
Ah yes, Ft. Sumpter. Yankees were asked to leave nicely, couldn't do it. Might have saved 600,000 lives.
Sumpter = Sumter
It's obvious you don't read post. I said I would not own a slave as it is a huge moral responsibility to provide for them. IOW a liability to be taken serious. No thanks.
The difference is we are not China and any person can achieve freedom even back in the old Pre-Civil War south. In China all persons live under Communist rule. Communist government and not free enterprise markets sets wages and the economical conditions. The Communist don't care who lives or who dies as a society they have no moral conscience. Actually there were a considerable number of free blacks living in the south. Some we slave owners or traders. The idea that every black person living in the south was slave is not true. Any more so than every black person in the north was free.
Also most slaves were not mistreated as such. Beat the crap out of a man and there is 50/50 odds he is gonna turn on you at some point. Most owners didn't wish to go there. When the war ended the former slaves in a lot of cases returned to the Plantations or farms. Thus share cropping began in earnest.
So why you suppose didn't Unkle Abe's friends give them jobs up north? Because the northern labor force would not tolerate working side by side perhaps? No thanks they said you done enough now leave? Anymore than they would being buried beside them perhaps? No the skilled labor of the north wasn't going for it. This lead to race riots as early as 1919 in the north.
If the north was the ideal Utopia then why were there riots up there in the 60's? Because despite the Politically Correct history re-write being taught today the north was anti-black. The Civil War was not about slavery. It was about states rights and economics of which the north wanted sole control of both. Unkie Abe was their puppet to get the job done. The south could have rotted away in poverty along with the slaves till it became an economic competition to them.
As for me I don't care what color a person is. I was only one of two to vote a black man for POTUS in the primaries in my precient and no it wasn't Obama. It was Keyes. My ancestors faced the wrongs done to many in the 1800's because at least one side of the family was Scot Irish. The color doesn't make the man. How he handles his way in life makes the man. I would rather be a slave to man and Free'd in GOD than be Free'd from GOD and set free by man.
The South sent delegations to Washington D.C. and offered to pay for the federal properties and enter into a peace treaty with the United States.(surprised that wasn't deleted out by the fascist/federalists) Lincoln rejected any negotiations with Confederate agents on the grounds that the Confederacy was not a legitimate government, and that making any treaty with it would be tantamount to recognition of it as a sovereign government. However, Secretary of State William Seward engaged in unauthorized and indirect negotiations that failed.[6
And your Constitutional justification for that is...?
PS: there was no deficit in 1860.
Actually there was. About $65 million
Ah yes, Ft. Sumpter. Yankees were asked to leave nicely, couldn't do it.
Why should they? It was federal property.
After the fact. The South walked out first, repudiated responsibility for their share of the debt first, stole every piece of federal property they could get their hands on first, and then you would have us believe they would be willing to pay for it?
You seem to like odd analogies, let's try this one on for size. Give me your house. Turn title to it over to me free and clear and vacate the property. Once you do that I'll pay you for it. I'll give you fair value, I promise.
Deal?
Here goes, if it were to go down again, split roughly the same way. Would you join in on the Federal or the break away state(s) side? Choose now, It should be easy to answer because slavery has nothing to do with it now.
Answer this and I leave you alone forever.
So lets bring back slavery and call it good.
Truth is the Old American Republic is the same new American Republic.
Still got people that hate it.
“The War of Northern Aggression” What is that? Canada is a peaceful country.
I do recall there was a “Civil War.” America won that one.
I need none. I don't see the Constitution as having any authority over the Federal government's behavior anymore. To them it is a living document, to me it was mortally wounded by FDR, killed by LBJ and buried by Nixon and Carter. That's my perception, as an adult I have to make rational judgments; if they aren't going to follow the rules then why should any state be forced to?.
OK, time to sleep it off my Irish friend.
They do not care! They have no heritage of their own and do not know what a heritage is. Northern society has periodically gone through fits of fanaticism which have focused upon us.When was the last time you thought about telling people in New York or Seattle what to do? Never, because it is not a part of our national character as Southerners.. In their fantasy world, which is the only culture of any significance they have, you are the evil obstacle to making the world perfect. They have always been that way.
They cover up their emptiness, hatred, hypocrisy, and insignificance by identifying you as the Enemy.Our forefathers saw this clearly. It was that kind of society and people that they fought to be free of!
I do have one thing to tell my Northern countrymen.
Go, free yourselves. Form a new perfect Federal Socialist Conservative Country and be forever free from the south. God-Speed and fair winds and following seas. We will not form Armies and ransack your country, we know what that feels like. Take as much as you want, leave us the debt. But just go in peace.
I hereby declare this thread as dead as a Confederate solder in a Mathew Brady photo.
Moral responsibility in keeping another soul in degraded bondage? There is no morality there, only despotism. You wouldn't take the responsibility? If you would, then it would be OK?
The distinction between the CSA then, and Communist China now, is tenuous at best. There is no subservient slave group in China. The whole population is under yoke. The analogy was good only for showing labor costs and why the free labor of slavery was an incentive to keep people who looked different as property. Had the CSA survived and existed today, the very same FR on this thread would be typing from Southern States justifying how they lived off the labor of others they owned. They would defend it just like they are defending the failed Confederacy now.
But to own a person, you have to degrade that person in your own mind and in his. If it existed today as an institution, you would see what kept the South down after the Civil war up through the civil rights movement- The need to dehumanize a segment of the population as justification for their own despotism. Modern laws would be no different than they were in the 1860’s. I could just see the Potemkin plantations where everyone was smiling. I could just see the Internet sites with slaves for sale.
The myth about slaves not being mistreated is especially odious. Slave uprisings? Underground railroads? Rape? Mutilation as an example to other slaves? No, you cannot justify it at all, then or now.
Now, whenever you point out what cannot be justified, the absolute rule on this thread is to attack the North. “Abe did this. Abe did that. Abe ate babies and was really an alien.” The Neo’s always twist it from what they cannot admit. The Confederacy was about protecting and promoting slavery. End of story. Not state's rights, not fishing treaties, not tariffs. Any grievance under the sun is dragged up to excuse what was the primary cause of the split: SLAVERY.
The North wasn't a utopia. They didn't want waves of freed slaves moving North. Why? Because it was competition for jobs. Imagine a boss of that era. Why hire a white man when you can have a black man for a tenth the price? That brings us back to the modern example of illegal labor and how they undercut Americans. That is why I used it as an example.
History is just that, history. When I point out there was nothing noble about the Confederacy, the Neo’s have done everything from cheap slams about Irish drinking to Yardstick's scummy anti Catholic postings. But you miss the point. I don't hate the Confederacy any more than I hate Nazi Germany, The Huns, The Persian Empire, or the Romans. They don't exist anymore.
So I don't have a stake in the lie the Civil War was about state's rights. The only state's right in question was slavery.
The Civil War was about protecting slavery.
But what I do have a stake in, is I don't like lies or revisionism. I can look at the history of the United States and the period of the Civil War and see it as a whole, not parts.
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
John Adams, 1770
You may not care about what color a man's skin is, but the CSA did. There was nothing noble about the Confederacy. Now after hundreds of posts, and many attacks and the refusal to even admit to role of slavery in the CSA, no one has brought anything noble forward in defense of the Confederacy.
That omission is damning.
No, I don’t drink.
Weak personal attack. Go with Yardstick’s anti Catholic postings. Much more vicious.
There was no such thing as “The War of Northern Aggression”
There was a “Civil War.”
America won that one.
You avoid answering questions and get all hissy when others don't snap to and answer your questions immediately? I think it's ended.
Spoken like a true confederate and Jefferson Davis fanatic. The Constitution is something to wipe your butt with, not to be respected. Davis would be soooo proud.
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