The Papacy and Islam

Bearean Beacon ^ | Richard Bennett and Robert J. Nicholson

[adiaireton8]

The key word in that is “authentic magisterium.”

I would hope that for you JPII counts as "authentic magisterium".

-A8

[kawaii]

ahh so you actually demand more than Thomas, you don’t just want to touch the holes in Christ body you want subtitles.

(Not to mention Orthodox Christians were the FIRSTS to localize scripture)

[armydoc]

LOL! You’re shameless. The key word in that is “authentic magisterium.” Moral theologians have long stated that even the clerics don’t have absolute authority. They are bound to perennial teachings of the Catholic faith. If the bishops teach something contrary to this, they are not to be followed. Even St. Paul says in Galatians, “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.”

If I can remind you, your initial point is that you didn't have to agree with a non-dogmatic papal statement. The reference I provided from V2 refutes that. Nice argument shift, by the way!

Let's address your new argument- if a Bishop's or Pope's teaching is not part of the "authentic magisterium", then you don't have to agree with it. And who gets to decide if that is the case? YOU, of course! You know better than Popes and Councils. You supercede the CCC. And to think we prots are criticized for our "private interpretations". I propose a new term- YOPIOC. Your Own Personal Interpretation of Catholicism. The Cafeteria is open for business!

[Pyro7480]

Of course, John Paul II was an actual pope. However, armydoc’s assertion that I must agree with everything the Pope says is absurd, even with that citation.

[adiaireton8]

AG,

We've had this discussion before. What you are defending is gnosticism. You want Christ, but reject the Church. But "he cannot have God for his father who does not have the Church for his mother". If you trust Christ, you will show it by trusting those whom He has appointed to govern His Church through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Church is the ark of the New Covenant, through which we must be saved. Jesus said to the Apostles,

"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." (Luke 10:16)

If we reject the Apostles and those whom the Apostles appointed to succeed them, we are (unless we do so out of ignorance) rejecting Christ, and thus rejecting the Father.

-A8

[HarleyD]

ahh so you actually demand more than Thomas, you don’t just want to touch the holes in Christ body you want subtitles.

I not only want to touch the holes but I want to examine the teeth. Fortunately God knows my limitations.

(Not to mention Orthodox Christians were the FIRSTS to localize scripture)

I hear the Orthodox is just about to publish a full version of the Bible after 2100 years. I'll lend you one of mine while you wait.

[adiaireton8]

if a Bishop's or Pope's teaching is not part of the "authentic magisterium", then you don't have to agree with it. And who gets to decide if that is the case? YOU, of course!

Pyro, how exactly is armydoc here misrepresenting your position? It looks to me to be your position.

-A8

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your replies!

Quix: Thank you so much for your encouragements and testimony, dear brother in Christ! We always know each other, I Cor 2:6-16.

kawaii: I Cor 14:36-38, quod erat demonstrandum

adiaireton8: I’ve been called worse. Thank you for sharing your views.

[kawaii]

oohhh you mean in ENGLISH. I see if the Lord doesn’t speak the language of the king it’s just beneath you eh?

protestantism at it’s best and most enlightened.

[adiaireton8]

adiaireton8: I’ve been called worse.

Just to be clear, I didn't call *you* anything. I called the *position* you were defending "gnosticism".

-A8

[Pyro7480]

Pyro, how exactly is armydoc here misrepresenting your position? It looks to me to be your position.

You're the one that is bringing that up, not armydoc. Again, I say, it is absurd to say that I, as a Catholic, must agree with everything the Pope says.

[HarleyD]

Hey, we spend big bucks for “English as a second language” classes in the US. I wonder how many “Greek as a second language” classes they have.

[kawaii]

hey tell it to those 12 guys who followed Christ around and didn’t speak a lick of English.

seems to me your bone is with the writers of the New Testament.

[adiaireton8]

Again, I say, it is absurd to say that I, as a Catholic, must agree with everything the Pope says.

We are not talking about an off-handed papal comment like, "Would you hand me that glass of water?" (when in fact the glass is full of soda). We are talking about a papal teaching that is in the Catechism. Please explain why it is "absurd" to say that you, as a Catholic, should agree with everything the [Pope & Catechism] teaches. Do you think Catholics can just pick and choose for themselves (outside of the infallible dogmas) which Catholic teachings in the Catechism do and do not belong to the "authentic magiseterium"?

-A8

[Pyro7480]

Do you think Catholics can just pick and choose for themselves (outside of the infallible dogmas) which Catholic teachings in the Catechism do and do not belong to the "authentic magiseterium"?

Ok, stop beating around the bush. If you think I'm in error on specific issues, then just say so and correct me!

[adiaireton8]

I wasn't beating around the bush. My question was entirely sincere.

Here's the quotation from LG:

"This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will."

Surely the Catholic Catechism approved by the Roman Pontiff counts as belonging to the "authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff".

-A8

[Quix]

Politically generated and built-up organizations of man simply do not remotely qualify as my mother or anything else very critical.

. . . particularly compared to God; Son, Spirit . . . Saving, indwelling, leading, guiding, protecting, providing . . .

Yeah, fellowship with others of like precious faith is important and worthwhile.

But it’s soooooo far from God . . . to compare them as mother/father

is virtually blasphemous, imho.

[adiaireton8]

Politically generated and built-up organizations of man simply do not remotely qualify as my mother or anything else very critical.

Agreed. But the Church is a divine organization. She is the "Body of Christ".

-A8

[GoLightly]

hey tell it to those 12 guys who followed Christ around and didn’t speak a lick of English.

If they spoke English & only English, do you think Christ would have spoken to them in Greek? Why bother with the Septuagint & instead teach the Old Testament in the original language which it was written?

Call me a leper. Call me a prostitute. Exclude me from your temples, because I am clearly not good enough & I would sully them.

[Iscool]

considering as I’m not Catholic,

Oh, that's right...You're the 'other' Catholic without the pope...