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Free Republic Poll on Evolution
Free Republic ^ | 22 September 2006 | Vanity

Posted on 09/22/2006 2:09:33 PM PDT by PatrickHenry

Free Republic is currently running a poll on this subject:

Do you think creationism or intelligent design should be taught in science classes in secondary public schools as a competing scientific theory to evolution?
You can find the poll at the bottom of your "self search" page, also titled "My Comments," where you go to look for posts you've received.

I don't know what effect -- if any -- the poll will have on the future of this website's science threads. But it's certainly worth while to know the general attitude of the people who frequent this website.

Science isn't a democracy, and the value of scientific theories isn't something that's voted upon. The outcome of this poll won't have any scientific importance. But the poll is important because this is a political website. How we decide to educate our children is a very important issue. It's also important whether the political parties decide to take a position on this. (I don't think they should, but it may be happening anyway.)

If you have an opinion on this subject, go ahead and vote.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; id
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To: Quix

I'm the one who says BB made up her Darwin quote. I've already pinged her and am eagerly awaiting a reply.


261 posted on 09/24/2006 1:05:52 PM PDT by js1138 (The absolute seriousness of someone who is terminally deluded.)
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To: js1138; betty boop

Ahhhhhhhhhhh, well . . .

Betty Boop has my undying admiration and respect. She's top flight.

This could be fun. I should make popcorn.

BTW, has it become the custom around here for . . . gnats to joust with elephants? Or am I in an alternate reality in some other galactic cluster?


262 posted on 09/24/2006 1:16:18 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: King Prout; Freedumb; Liberal Classic; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; FreedomProtector; Quix; js1138; ...
one point: were the synthetic theory of evolution to be faithfully developed into a sociopolitical philosophy, it would be antithetical to socialism.

Well then King, why hasn't this been done yet? (Though you seem to have effectively done so in your fine post here). You let Marxists like Lewontin (and presumably Dawkins, others) use the theory to support their view of a sociopolitical order that seeks the very opposite of a liberal, just, free society.

Jeepers, I've heard Richard Dawkins wax poetic over the splendors of the ant heap via-a-vis the sort of social order that Western man has historically considered natural and normative. There are individuals in an ant heap too, ya know. But they are not "individuals" in the way we usually think of human beings.

Notwithstanding those quibbles, let me congratulate you on a great post, King Prout! Thank you.

263 posted on 09/24/2006 1:16:29 PM PDT by betty boop (Beautiful are the things we see...Much the most beautiful those we do not comprehend. -- N. Steensen)
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To: betty boop
Hitler's racialist policies were undoubtedly justified on "survival of the fittest" grounds, that entailed that people considered to be "less fit" could be expunged. Peter Singer continues to make that argument today, from the hallowed halls of Princeton. You don't think he got that idea from the Gospel of Saint John, do you?

The idea probably came from Plato, the first advocate of compulsory eugenics. He recommended state-supervised selective breeding of children.

The Republic, Book 5, Section 1.

264 posted on 09/24/2006 1:20:27 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Science-denial is not conservative. It's reality-denial and that's what liberals do.)
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To: Dimensio

"What has "how the earth got here" to do with the theory of evolution?"

The topic of the thread is:

"Do you think creationism or intelligent design should be taught in science classes in secondary public schools as a competing scientific theory to evolution?"

Creationism = how the earth got here


265 posted on 09/24/2006 1:21:00 PM PDT by TheRobb7 (How many Democrats will YOU elect by staying home on Election Day????)
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To: betty boop
...You let Marxists like Lewontin (and presumably Dawkins, others) use the theory to support their view of a sociopolitical order that seeks the very opposite of a liberal, just, free society....

I don't *let* Leftists use corrupted strawman variants of the SToE any more than I *let* creationists and neoPlatonists do so.

it is *beyond my power* to stop them from doing so.

had I that power, rest assured I would use it with great finality.

266 posted on 09/24/2006 1:21:51 PM PDT by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal... this would not be a problem if fewer people were under-precise)
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To: Coyoteman; metmom; Alamo-Girl; Stultis; King Prout; js1138
Teach biology, not religion. Now there, that was easy, wasn't it?

Did you even read my post, Coyoteman? Had you done so, you would have noticed how scrupulously I draw the line between the two? while at the same time recognizing that both are essential to a scientifically and culturally literate high school student? And that I don't think religion should be taught in biology class?

Get the wax out of your ears, kiddo! :^)

Thanks for writing.

267 posted on 09/24/2006 1:24:26 PM PDT by betty boop (Beautiful are the things we see...Much the most beautiful those we do not comprehend. -- N. Steensen)
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To: Quix
This could be fun. I should make popcorn.

Make a lot. The quote was made up. There will be no response.

268 posted on 09/24/2006 1:27:17 PM PDT by js1138 (The absolute seriousness of someone who is terminally deluded.)
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To: betty boop
Personally I doubt evolutionary theory has much to fear from the disciplines of ID, and perhaps has much to gain from them. For instance, the mathematical physicist Hubert Yockey, who's evidently a great admirer of Charles Darwin, taking a page from physics, wants to place the theory on a more rigorous, mathematical basis. I don't know why anyone would object to that.

Everyone involved in biology is working toward better mathematical models. What relevance they have to a week or two of high school biology devoted to evolution, I have difficulty. Kind of like stuffing quantum mechanics into two weeks of high school physics.

But let's not kid ourselves. The issue under protest is not abstruse mathematical models; it is common descent.

In all the years I've been on these threads, I've only seen two evolution critics admit to accepting common descent.

269 posted on 09/24/2006 1:34:36 PM PDT by js1138 (The absolute seriousness of someone who is terminally deluded.)
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Comment #270 Removed by Moderator

To: betty boop

IMhO,

You're far too bright to expect reason and truth to reign on the EVO threads! LOL.


271 posted on 09/24/2006 1:40:15 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: TheRobb7
Creationism = how the earth got here

There are quite a few religious creation stories that do not address the origin of the earth itself.
272 posted on 09/24/2006 1:42:53 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Luka_Brazi
It's shocking to me how Plato has gotten such a free pass on that one. Aristotle was a far more intelligent man.

Plato has his uses. But the modern world is attributable to Aristotle -- who was Plato's finest work, actually.

273 posted on 09/24/2006 1:45:06 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Science-denial is not conservative. It's reality-denial and that's what liberals do.)
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To: Dimensio

"There are quite a few religious creation stories that do not address the origin of the earth itself."

ok...........


274 posted on 09/24/2006 1:45:27 PM PDT by TheRobb7 (How many Democrats will YOU elect by staying home on Election Day????)
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To: Quix
BTW, has it become the custom around here for . . . gnats to joust with elephants?

BTW, the gnat wins. Look it up.

275 posted on 09/24/2006 1:47:19 PM PDT by js1138 (The absolute seriousness of someone who is terminally deluded.)
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To: freedumb2003; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; PatrickHenry; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Stultis; Coyoteman; ...
Faith is not a component of any scientific study.

Sure it is, Freedumb2003. Faith is foundational in any exercise of reason. You've got to have faith in something or reason has nothing to do, and no way to do it. For instance, how could science be done without confidence that there are things to be learned and logic and valid natural laws by which they may be known? The word "confidence" = "with + faith."

I'm not quibbling here either. Faith has apparently become so disreputable to you that you have forgotten how central it is to your even being able to get out of bed in the morning, and to orient yourself in the world of man and nature.

Science believes all the time: It believes in the importance of the questions it is asking, it believes that the design of the experiment to test the proposition is suitable, it believes that the evidence it gathers and qualifies in the prosecution of finding the answer to the question is appropriate.... It believes in the power of reason and logic. It believes in "objective" physical laws that can be faithfully applied to problems to get valid answers. Science believes all the time, at every step; and so, I imagine, do you -- though you apparently do not recognize it....

I'd only wish to add that it was exclusively within the Western civilizational orbit -- which is traditionally classical and JudeoChristian in belief -- that systematic science even got started in the first place. And nowhere else. I'll leave it up to you to discover why that is. It really is an "interesting problem!"

Anyhoot, my two cents for whatever they're worth to you. Thanks for writing!

276 posted on 09/24/2006 1:48:57 PM PDT by betty boop (Beautiful are the things we see...Much the most beautiful those we do not comprehend. -- N. Steensen)
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To: js1138

Nah.

Not my priority.


277 posted on 09/24/2006 1:49:21 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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Comment #278 Removed by Moderator

To: betty boop

It's always so funny . . .

those throwing rocks at faith fail utterly to realize how immobilized and lifeless they'd be without it.

. . . at stop lights . . .

. . . at the MD's . . .

. . . at the food counters . . . especially when contemplating spinich! LOL . . .

. . . in close relationships

. . . in the Papal encyclicals proffered by the High Priests of the religion of science . . . many of which have been proven to be hoaxed, fudged etc. . . .

. . . that their car will start on cold mornings . . . wellll . . . that some cars will . . .

. . . that their spouses or significant other's will come home again day after tomorrow.

. . . that chance plus time makes sense . . .

. . . the list is virtually endless.


279 posted on 09/24/2006 1:53:09 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: js1138
Make a lot. The quote was made up. There will be no response.

And here I thought this thread couldn't get any worse. ;^)

280 posted on 09/24/2006 1:55:16 PM PDT by balrog666 (Ignorance is never better than knowledge. - Enrico Fermi)
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