I would suggest that Hitler was a Catholic, but not a Christian.

Birth doesn't establish one's faith. Hitler opposed all forms of Christianity. He wasn't a Christian or Catholic.

If people have abandoned the Church and completely renounced their Catholicism, like Hitler did, an excommunication will obviously not bother them the slightest bit.

Wasn't that my point? I ignored my baptism and catholic education for 30 years, and I have said plenty of less-than-complimentary things about the RC faith. It didn't get me off the roles at my hometown church. Do you have reference to some piece of paper in which Hitler renounced his affiliation? Do you have reference to some piece of paper in which the RC church ex-communicated Hitler?

Hitler never attended a Mass from the time he was 16 to the time he was put down - why would he be upset if he was not welcome to the sacraments if he never even sought them?

That wasn't the question before the house. The question before the house was: what was the source of his anti-jewish sentiments?

Be serious.

Maybe if you'd read the argument, you'd have a responsive comment. Lest we forget:

A picture of Madonna and child, by Adolf Schickelgruber. One of many laborously detailed paintings of catholic religeous icons.

Hitler leaving the Marine church at Wilhelmshaven

Birth doesn't establish one's faith. Hitler opposed all forms of Christianity. He wasn't a Christian or Catholic.

Is that also true of the millions of Hitler followers that listened to his Christian rhetoric? Assuming he was a hypocrite, why did he choose to portray him self as a Christian? What was it about the millions of people in his audience?

Wasn't that my point? I ignored my baptism and catholic education for 30 years, and I have said plenty of less-than-complimentary things about the RC faith. It didn't get me off the roles at my hometown church.

Proving what? People die and remain on parish registers. Names of people who have never even existed are on many parish registers as well. Poor bookkeeping isn't a doctrinal matter.

Do you have reference to some piece of paper in which Hitler renounced his affiliation?

It's called Mein Kampf, in which Hitler openly avows that he took secret oaths as a member of anti-Catholic societies.

Do you have reference to some piece of paper in which the RC church ex-communicated Hitler?

A latae sententiae excommunication by definition involves no ecclesiastical paperwork. It is automatic. Do you really think that the Church ran a computerized central database in the early 1900s tracking who belonged to what Masonic society and who had an abortion etc. and sent out form letters to them? Get real.

There is, of course, the Papal encyclical Mit brennender Sorge written by Pope Pius XI which condemns Nazi-style racialist doctrine as being incompatible with Christianity.

The question before the house was: what was the source of his anti-jewish sentiments?

The source of Hitler's anti-Semitic sentiments - excluding for the moment direct demonic influence - was obviously the nationalist German Volkische movement in which he involved himself from an early age. Coincidentally, the Schleicher circle of Masonic anti-Semites which he joined in pre-WWI Vienna had, as its slogan, "Ohne Juden ohne Rom, wird gebaut Germaniens Dom" - "Without Jews and without Rome shall Germania's cathedral be built." Germania being the dreamed-of pan-German Reich that Hitler eventually tried to build.

picture of Madonna and child, by Adolf Schickelgruber. One of many laborously detailed paintings of catholic religeous icons.

Like plenty of other non-Catholic artists in turn-of-the-century Catholic Austria, Hitler put together a portfolio of paintings hoping to get nice commissions from Catholic churches for altarpieces, reredos, Lady chapels and other lucrative mural work.

Big deal.

Hitler leaving the Marine church at Wilhelmshaven

Nice try, but the Marine Church in Wilhelmshaven - in one of the most monolithically Protestant regions of Germany - was and is today a Lutheran Protestant church.

This photo was circulated by the Nazis as propaganda in 1931 - as a way of showing Northern Germany's overwhelmingly Protestant electorate that this Austrian - who would usually be suspect of papist dual loyalty like the rest of his countrymen - was quite comfortable paying his respects (i.e. removing his hat) in a Lutheran church.

BTW, I do not mean to imply that Hitler was a believing Lutheran or any kind of Christian at all - he was an atheist who believed only in the so-called "Aryan race" not in Jesus. He was just doing a photo-op.

Sure is gonna be quiet!

Boohoo, who WILL we play with??

More than wishes.........

Are you addicted to BUYING them??

Just stop that!

I tell you that you will stop when you decide to do so.

Hopefully beFORE a Doctor says.....

Usually THAT will get your attention! ;^)

I have heard that the DEFINITION of sound was that it produced a sensation in an EAR.

Therefore, with no EAR around to sense the air vibrations, there would be no 'sound'.

Which reminds me; my rule now is to be unresponsive to trolls, lunatics, fanatics, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses. That means don't expect anymore posts from me. You're beneath me.

You are a CLONE of PH or else an unabashed plagarist!

2 posted on 05/12/2006 2:15:00 PM CDT by PatrickHenry (Unresponsive to trolls, lunatics, fanatics, retards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)

"Do you have a better authority than the family members who attended his death bed?

You'd have to have something that recants this......

Charles Darwin (1809-1882)
"By further reflecting that the clearest evidence would be requisite to make any sane man believe in the miracles by which Christianity is supported,—and that the more we know of the fixed laws of nature the more incredible do miracles become,—that the men at that time were ignorant and credulous to a degree almost incomprehensible by us,—that the Gospels cannot be proven to have been written simultaneously with the events,—that they differ in many important details, far too important, as it seemed to me to be admitted as the usual inaccuracies of eye witnesses;—by such reflections as these, which I give not as having the least novelty or value, but as they influenced me, I gradually came to disbelieve in Christianity as a divine revelation. The fact that many fake religions have spread over large portions of the earth like wildfire had some weight with me. But I was very unwilling to give up my belief; I feel sure of this, for I can remember often and often inventing day-dreams of old letters between distinguished Romans, and manuscripts being discovered at Pompeii or elsewhere, which confirmed in the most striking manner all that was written in the Gospels. But I found it more and more difficult, with free scope given to my imagination, to invent evidence which would suffice to convince me. Thus disbelief crept over me at a very slow rate, but was at last complete. The rate was so slow that I felt no distress, and have never since doubted even for a single second that my conclusion was correct."
( Charles Darwin in his Autobiography of Charles Darwin, Dover Publications, 1992, p. 62. )

Charles Darwin (1809-1882)
"I think that generally (& more & more as I grow older), but not always, that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind."
( Quoted from Adrian Desmond and James Moore, Darwin: The Life of a Tormented Evolutionist, New York: W. W. Norton & Company, 1991, p. 636. )

NIV Proverbs 4:13
Hold on to instruction, do not let it go; guard it well, for it is your life.

NIV Hebrews 3:6
But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.

NIV Hebrews 3:14
We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

NIV Hebrews 6:11
We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure.

NIV Hebrews 12:3
Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

NIV 2 Timothy 2:11-13
11. Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him;
12. if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;
13. if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

NIV 2 Peter 2:20-21
20. If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
21. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

NIV 2 John 1:8
Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.

NIV Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

NIV Revelation 2:25
Only hold on to what you have until I come.

NIV Revelation 3:11
I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

Sure, especially since accepting God did not require him to renounce his theory.

I can accept this!

A contemporary said:

"“How many divisions does the pope have?”

-- Josef Stalin

...the responses I have been sent from avowed atheist's confirms...

Hearsay!

Surely, none of Gods' creation, including the fallen angels, is beyond redemption.

It appears that you may be mistaken:

NIV Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

NIV Revelation 12:7-9
7. And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
8. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven.

It echoes this sentiment:

NIV Joshua 24:15
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

(I shudda read ahead!! ;^)

I'd like a cite that specifically states this.

Just a few posts up above...

One can use TRUE statements to decieve!

Wasn't that my point? I ignored my baptism and catholic education for 30 years, and I have said plenty of less-than-complimentary things about the RC faith. It didn't get me off the roles at my hometown church.

Proving what? People die and remain on parish registers. Names of people who have never even existed are on many parish registers as well. Poor bookkeeping isn't a doctrinal matter.

So...you don't have a piece of paper at hand in which Hitler renounces the catholic church, or a bull of Hitler's excommunication from the church?

Do you have reference to some piece of paper in which Hitler renounced his affiliation?

It's called Mein Kampf, in which Hitler openly avows that he took secret oaths as a member of anti-Catholic societies.

So...he wore a funny hat at a masonic lodge. Oh, good gracious. How devastating that ex-communication must have been. Could you point out specifically where in Mein Kampf Hitler repudiates his membership in the catholic church, or his christianity in general--I mean to say, where it is actually said--not inferred from your knowledge of arcane canon law.

Do you have reference to some other piece of paper in which the RC church ex-communicated Hitler?

A latae sententiae excommunication by definition involves no ecclesiastical paperwork. It is automatic.

And so, of course, it doesn't mean butkus back here in the real world.

Do you really think that the Church ran a computerized central database in the early 1900s tracking who belonged to what Masonic society and who had an abortion etc. and sent out form letters to them? Get real.

Hey, have I got an opportunity for you. The Mormon's use a big computer to marry off dead people to each other so they can be saved. To about the same practical effect.

There is, of course, the Papal encyclical Mit brennender Sorge written by Pope Pius XI which condemns Nazi-style racialist doctrine as being incompatible with Christianity.

Short of publically ex-communicating the nazi final solution, of course. Or getting into the specifics of the death machine. And notwithstanding, when pressed for details, Pius still said that differential laws regarding non-christians was a perogative of a state.

The question before the house was: what was the source of his anti-jewish sentiments?

The source of Hitler's anti-Semitic sentiments - excluding for the moment direct demonic influence

Yea, right. Of course. Demonic influence. And don't forget witches and necromancers.

- was obviously the nationalist German Volkische movement in which he involved himself from an early age. Coincidentally, the Schleicher circle of Masonic anti-Semites which he joined in pre-WWI Vienna had, as its slogan, "Ohne Juden ohne Rom, wird gebaut Germaniens Dom" - "Without Jews and without Rome shall Germania's cathedral be built." Germania being the dreamed-of pan-German Reich that Hitler eventually tried to build.

That is shallow christian apologist's self-serving b/s, as I have extensively documented on this thread. Volkische/masonic anti-jewish sentiment did not spring up from nowhere--you are pointing to the sympom, not the source.

picture of Madonna and child, by Adolf Schickelgruber. One of many laborously detailed paintings of catholic religeous icons.

Like plenty of other non-Catholic artists in turn-of-the-century Catholic Austria, Hitler put together a portfolio of paintings hoping to get nice commissions from Catholic churches for altarpieces, reredos, Lady chapels and other lucrative mural work.

Uh huh, yet another chunk of mind-reading evidence to stand against the USArmy's evaluation. There are other potential sources of income in the world, why did Hitler choose this one? You can tell just from looking at that painting how he didn't really have his heart in it--can't you?

Big deal.

Ram your head a little further into the sand, I can still see you.

Hitler leaving the Marine church at Wilhelmshaven

Nice try, but the Marine Church in Wilhelmshaven - in one of the most monolithically Protestant regions of Germany - was and is today a Lutheran Protestant church.

Who gives a rat's behind? How many times do I have to tell you that the question is where did anti-jewish sentiment come from, and why were Hitler's appeals for support of the Final Solution & such couched in religeous terms to a religeous audience.

This photo was circulated by the Nazis as propaganda in 1931

And, again, that's my point. Thanks for re-affirming it.

BTW, I do not mean to imply that Hitler was a believing Lutheran or any kind of Christian at all - he was an atheist who believed only in the so-called "Aryan race" not in Jesus. He was just doing a photo-op.

And again, who gives a rat's behind. That doesn't answer the question. It's not material whether Hitler was a Lutheran, a catholic, a jew, or an orthodox donkey's behind. The question is, where did German anti-jewish sentiment come to Hitler from, and why did he find couching his anti-jewish appeal in religeous garb so effective?

He appears to have that ARBY'S thing going on!

Although it appears you will STILL play with retards!!!