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'Darwin's finches' revert to type
english.aljazeera.net ^ | May 4, 2006

Posted on 05/08/2006 1:17:07 PM PDT by mlc9852

Human interaction with animals could be causing evolution to go into reverse, says a report by the Royal Society, Britain's science academy.

A study of finches on the Galapagos Islands in the Pacific – finches are the same birds that were said to have inspired Charles Darwin's groundbreaking work on evolution - has shown that some could be losing their distinctive beaks in response to living near humans.

Finches on the islands have developed different sizes of beak - but when people live in close proximity to the birds, their beaks revert to an intermediate size, the report says.

Andrew Hendry, a professor at McGill University in Montreal who led the study, told the Independent newspaper that the evolutionary split within the species was being reversed.

(Excerpt) Read more at english.aljazeera.net ...


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: creation; creationping; crevo; crevodebates; crevolist; darwinsfinches; evofraud; evolution; evolutionfraud; finches; galapogos; pepperedmoths; reverseevolution
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Says everything I have ever read about them.

You must be a very selective reader (see faith)

Your info is dead wrong.

Once again - says you. And once again it looks like you are wrong. Did you actually read the link you posted? It points out problems with Kettlewell's methods.

I did present evidence.

An opinion piece from talkorigns.org. Do you ever venture into the scary world of information beyond the womb of the evolution-faithful?

121 posted on 05/09/2006 3:58:34 PM PDT by Last Visible Dog
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To: Last Visible Dog
"You must be a very selective reader (see faith)"

No, I actually understand what is written. The moths were only pinned down in a few pictures, and only to show the contrast between the two color varieties. That's a fact.

"And once again it looks like you are wrong. Did you actually read the link you posted? It points out problems with Kettlewell's methods."

No it didn't. It said the studies were valid.

"An opinion piece from talkorigns.org. Do you ever venture into the scary world of information beyond the womb of the evolution-faithful?"

Do you always hand-wave away evidence that goes against your insular religious views? The piece was a detailed rebuttal of the charge that the studies were faked. It provided extensive citations to back it up.
122 posted on 05/09/2006 4:02:57 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life....")
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To: mlc9852

I'll read the post and thread but, a post from Al-jazeera!? What were you thinking?


123 posted on 05/09/2006 4:32:49 PM PDT by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads.)
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To: mlc9852

What would an example of "reverse evolution" be?

There is no such thing.

124 posted on 05/09/2006 4:35:27 PM PDT by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads.)
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To: mlc9852

Then why don't all species evolve for survival? Shouldn't evolution prevent extinction?

Species evolve into other species for survival.

125 posted on 05/09/2006 4:41:38 PM PDT by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads.)
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To: mlc9852; Sofa King; ml1954
Well, seems like we have a choice here. Is it *A* or *B*?

*A* (Post 32)A specie becoming less adapted to it's environment (and not because the environment itself is changing faster than it can keep up).

*B* (post 124)There is no such thing.

But science is not done by popular vote, so there seems to be a problem here. How do we decide which is right?

126 posted on 05/09/2006 4:44:13 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Last Visible Dog
Do you ever venture into the scary world of information beyond the womb of the evolution-faithful?

You can't find anything wrong with the talkorigin piece and you can't admit it.

127 posted on 05/09/2006 4:44:26 PM PDT by js1138
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To: JCEccles

I believe it's far beyond reasonable dispute that natural selection plays an important role in how animal species develop over time to better fit environmental niches.

I think you believe wrongly. BTW, what's your hypothesis about how 'species develop over time to better fit environmental niches'?

128 posted on 05/09/2006 4:46:04 PM PDT by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads.)
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To: ml1954

The same story has been linked to other sources. Hey, don't you think it's good to get info from different sources? I want to know what Al-Jazeera is saying. I don't believe in burying my head in the sand. I try to keep an open mind.


129 posted on 05/09/2006 4:46:22 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: ml1954

"Species evolve into other species for survival."

You may want to think about that. What would cause extinction if species could just "evolve" their way out? And species don't really change - they just adapt to their conditions as God planned.


130 posted on 05/09/2006 4:48:01 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: js1138

that's my conclusion too


131 posted on 05/09/2006 4:49:44 PM PDT by bobdsmith
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To: mlc9852

Well the Muslims are your natural ally.


132 posted on 05/09/2006 4:52:19 PM PDT by js1138
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To: js1138

Actually I am not very fond of Muslims at all. If I had my way, they would not be allowed in the US. But believe what you want - I do.


133 posted on 05/09/2006 4:53:27 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852

"What would cause extinction if species could just "evolve" their way out?"

I already told you:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1628747/posts?page=88#88
"And species don't really change - they just adapt to their conditions as God planned."

And *is* isn't really *is*.


134 posted on 05/09/2006 4:53:57 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life....")
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To: mlc9852

It's you who believe as they do.


135 posted on 05/09/2006 4:55:14 PM PDT by js1138
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

Too bad two Tarheels can't get along.

The finches were still and are still finches.


136 posted on 05/09/2006 4:55:18 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: js1138

Really? What do "they" believe?


137 posted on 05/09/2006 4:56:17 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: metmom; mlc9852; Sofa King

But science is not done by popular vote, so there seems to be a problem here. How do we decide which is right?

Picky, picky. Nice try, but not a very good one. 'Reverse' is the important word here. Reverse implies a direction with, *usually*, a negative connotation. If I reverse (or change) the direction my car is traveling in car to avoid an accident, however, it's not so negative.

A species becoming less adapted to it's environment is not a 'reversal', obviously. In fact, wonder of wonders, that's sometimes what drives a species to evolve into another species, or become extinct. And whether or not the former is and advance and the latter a reversal is a subjective human abstract construct.

138 posted on 05/09/2006 4:56:53 PM PDT by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads.)
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To: mlc9852
"The finches were still and are still finches."

And nobody ever said they were anything else.

"Too bad two Tarheels can't get along."

Well, I'm an NCSU alum. Does that make things better or worse? :)
139 posted on 05/09/2006 4:58:57 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life....")
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To: ml1954; metmom; Sofa King

"And whether or not the former is and advance and the latter a reversal is a subjective human abstract construct."

Yeah, sometimes extinction is just the best thing for a species, right?


140 posted on 05/09/2006 5:00:11 PM PDT by mlc9852
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