Posted on 02/20/2006 5:33:50 AM PST by ToryHeartland
Churches urged to back evolution By Paul Rincon BBC News science reporter, St Louis
US scientists have called on mainstream religious communities to help them fight policies that undermine the teaching of evolution.
The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) hit out at the "intelligent design" movement at its annual meeting in Missouri.
Teaching the idea threatens scientific literacy among schoolchildren, it said.
Its proponents argue life on Earth is too complex to have evolved on its own.
As the name suggests, intelligent design is a concept invoking the hand of a designer in nature.
It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other Gilbert Omenn AAAS president
There have been several attempts across the US by anti-evolutionists to get intelligent design taught in school science lessons.
At the meeting in St Louis, the AAAS issued a statement strongly condemning the moves.
"Such veiled attempts to wedge religion - actually just one kind of religion - into science classrooms is a disservice to students, parents, teachers and tax payers," said AAAS president Gilbert Omenn.
"It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other.
"They can and do co-exist in the context of most people's lives. Just not in science classrooms, lest we confuse our children."
'Who's kidding whom?'
Eugenie Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education, which campaigns to keep evolution in public schools, said those in mainstream religious communities needed to "step up to the plate" in order to prevent the issue being viewed as a battle between science and religion.
Some have already heeded the warning.
"The intelligent design movement belittles evolution. It makes God a designer - an engineer," said George Coyne, director of the Vatican Observatory.
"Intelligent design concentrates on a designer who they do not really identify - but who's kidding whom?"
Last year, a federal judge ruled in favour of 11 parents in Dover, Pennsylvania, who argued that Darwinian evolution must be taught as fact.
Dover school administrators had pushed for intelligent design to be inserted into science teaching. But the judge ruled this violated the constitution, which sets out a clear separation between religion and state.
Despite the ruling, more challenges are on the way.
Fourteen US states are considering bills that scientists say would restrict the teaching of evolution.
These include a legislative bill in Missouri which seeks to ensure that only science which can be proven by experiment is taught in schools.
I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design Teacher Mark Gihring "The new strategy is to teach intelligent design without calling it intelligent design," biologist Kenneth Miller, of Brown University in Rhode Island, told the BBC News website.
Dr Miller, an expert witness in the Dover School case, added: "The advocates of intelligent design and creationism have tried to repackage their criticisms, saying they want to teach the evidence for evolution and the evidence against evolution."
However, Mark Gihring, a teacher from Missouri sympathetic to intelligent design, told the BBC: "I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design.
"[Intelligent design] ultimately takes us back to why we're here and the value of life... if an individual doesn't have a reason for being, they might carry themselves in a way that is ultimately destructive for society."
Economic risk
The decentralised US education system ensures that intelligent design will remain an issue in the classroom regardless of the decision in the Dover case.
"I think as a legal strategy, intelligent design is dead. That does not mean intelligent design as a social movement is dead," said Ms Scott.
"This is an idea that has real legs and it's going to be around for a long time. It will, however, evolve."
Among the most high-profile champions of intelligent design is US President George W Bush, who has said schools should make students aware of the concept.
But Mr Omenn warned that teaching intelligent design will deprive students of a proper education, ultimately harming the US economy.
"At a time when fewer US students are heading into science, baby boomer scientists are retiring in growing numbers and international students are returning home to work, America can ill afford the time and tax-payer dollars debating the facts of evolution," he said. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/sci/tech/4731360.stm
Published: 2006/02/20 10:54:16 GMT
© BBC MMVI
The evos on thesee threads are constantly callling those who believe in intelligent design liars. They don't seem to use the same dictionary as you.
What is your reaction when liberals/MSM call President Bush a "liar"?
I consider the source. What do you say when the evos call the creationists "liars"?
Oops. My mistake.
Ok, I wasn't aware of the requirement, but indeed, I was taken in by a folk-legend.
Just pointing to a book that contains the allegation is not a referrable source.
Apparently, your a little more subborn about your mistaken assumptions.
Because it's one of the most clearly demeaning of orthodox jews? Which are the the easy ones about which there has never arisen any controversy amongst the faithful or the cynical?
What is my stubborn mistaken assumption? I had assumed that Indiana had not attempted to codify pi=3 and I was right. They tried to codify some gibberish about pi being equal to 3.2 (at least in regard to the determination of the area of a circle), but it was based upon a formula that was apparently published in a peer reviewed mathematical journal and it had nothing to do with trying to codify a biblical "error". Apparently the motivation behind the legislation was pecuniary rather than spiritual.
It does IF the people in question have some type of knowledge of the Judea/Christian faith.
I think the lurkers want to know about the ones who HAVEN'T heard.
That's because we have heard, from the earliest times, that "Gramma is in Heaven with Jesus", dear, "along with Fido.", when kids wonder about death.
I think there are very FEW in that state now.
The way I read it is that the dead are 'sleeping' in their graves (But, what if the sharks ate them?) and are awaiting the resurrection.
If not, what are the verses that speak about the dead raising all about? If the 'righteous' have been somehow 'pre-judged' before the Great White Throne time, I cannot find it.
Apparently, no one else wants to dig through the enormous tracts of biblical spewings you've been pestering us with, either. Do you think there's any opinion on any subject you haven't vouchsafed with a biblical reference at one time or another. Curions that you are on about this when all you have to do is tell me your opinion.
I'll adumbrate the only question you can demonstrate constitutes a statement of your opinion: do you disavow the bulk of Genesis? Do you disavow that the 10 commandments and the 200-odd instructions to judges, from God's mouth to their ears, were instructions as to what laws governments should enforce, right down to the details of punishment?
By your religeous scruples, is it God's intention that the 10 Commandments be party conversation, or are they instructions that ought to be enforced upon the community? Do you have a personal opinion, such that you're even justified in taking umbrage at my characterizing it, or are you just a scripture-robot?
What is my stubborn mistaken assumption?
Well, gee. Could it be the one I quoted in the post where I asked this question? Citation a bit of a blind spot for you?
Oh, for an Evo, 'characterization' is ok, but 'slander' is not!
Yours is the slander, yours is the obligation of proof.
Dang! How many times do I have to post YOUR WORDS????
Dimensio; YOU are the expert in these matters; where ARE you? ;^)
NIV Acts 13:47-51
47. For this is what the Lord has commanded us: "`I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' "
48. When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
49. The word of the Lord spread through the whole region.
50. But the Jews incited the God-fearing women of high standing and the leading men of the city. They stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them from their region.
51. So they shook the dust from their feet in protest against them and went to Iconium.
NIV Acts 15:1-2
1. Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved."
2. This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.
NIV Acts 16:19-22
19. When the owners of the slave girl realized that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to face the authorities.
20. They brought them before the magistrates and said, "These men are Jews, and are throwing our city into an uproar
21. by advocating customs unlawful for us Romans to accept or practice."
22. The crowd joined in the attack against Paul and Silas, and the magistrates ordered them to be stripped and beaten.
35. When it was daylight, the magistrates sent their officers to the jailer with the order: "Release those men."
36. The jailer told Paul, "The magistrates have ordered that you and Silas be released. Now you can leave. Go in peace."
37. But Paul said to the officers: "They beat us publicly without a trial, even though we are Roman citizens, and threw us into prison. And now do they want to get rid of us quietly? No! Let them come themselves and escort us out."
NIV Acts 17:4-8
4. Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women.
5. But the Jews were jealous; so they rounded up some bad characters from the marketplace, formed a mob and started a riot in the city. They rushed to Jason's house in search of Paul and Silas in order to bring them out to the crowd.
6. But when they did not find them, they dragged Jason and some other brothers before the city officials, shouting: "These men who have caused trouble all over the world have now come here,
7. and Jason has welcomed them into his house. They are all defying Caesar's decrees, saying that there is another king, one called Jesus."
8. When they heard this, the crowd and the city officials were thrown into turmoil.
NIV Acts 18:12-16
12. While Gallio was proconsul of Achaia, the Jews made a united attack on Paul and brought him into court.
13. "This man," they charged, "is persuading the people to worship God in ways contrary to the law."
14. Just as Paul was about to speak, Gallio said to the Jews, "If you Jews were making a complaint about some misdemeanor or serious crime, it would be reasonable for me to listen to you.
15. But since it involves questions about words and names and your own law--settle the matter yourselves. I will not be a judge of such things."
16. So he had them ejected from the court.
NIV Acts 18:28
For he vigorously refuted the Jews in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.
NIV Acts 19:8-9
8. Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God.
9. But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus.
I served the Lord with great humility and with tears, although I was severely tested by the plots of the Jews.
NIV Acts 21:27-32
27. When the seven days were nearly over, some Jews from the province of Asia saw Paul at the temple. They stirred up the whole crowd and seized him,
28. shouting, "Men of Israel, help us! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against our people and our law and this place. And besides, he has brought Greeks into the temple area and defiled this holy place."
29. (They had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian in the city with Paul and assumed that Paul had brought him into the temple area.)
30. The whole city was aroused, and the people came running from all directions. Seizing Paul, they dragged him from the temple, and immediately the gates were shut.
31. While they were trying to kill him, news reached the commander of the Roman troops that the whole city of Jerusalem was in an uproar.
32. He at once took some officers and soldiers and ran down to the crowd. When the rioters saw the commander and his soldiers, they stopped beating Paul.
NIV Acts 22:19-25
19. "`Lord,' I replied, `these men know that I went from one synagogue to another to imprison and beat those who believe in you.
20. And when the blood of your martyr Stephen was shed, I stood there giving my approval and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.'
21. "Then the Lord said to me, `Go; I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'"
22. The crowd listened to Paul until he said this. Then they raised their voices and shouted, "Rid the earth of him! He's not fit to live!"
23. As they were shouting and throwing off their cloaks and flinging dust into the air,
24. the commander ordered Paul to be taken into the barracks. He directed that he be flogged and questioned in order to find out why the people were shouting at him like this.
25. As they stretched him out to flog him, Paul said to the centurion standing there, "Is it legal for you to flog a Roman citizen who hasn't even been found guilty?"
NIV Acts 23:12-15
12. The next morning the Jews formed a conspiracy and bound themselves with an oath not to eat or drink until they had killed Paul.
13. More than forty men were involved in this plot.
14. They went to the chief priests and elders and said, "We have taken a solemn oath not to eat anything until we have killed Paul.
15. Now then, you and the Sanhedrin petition the commander to bring him before you on the pretext of wanting more accurate information about his case. We are ready to kill him before he gets here."
NIV Acts 24:5-9
5. "We have found this man to be a troublemaker, stirring up riots among the Jews all over the world. He is a ringleader of the Nazarene sect
6. and even tried to desecrate the temple; so we seized him.
8. By examining him yourself you will be able to learn the truth about all these charges we are bringing against him."
9. The Jews joined in the accusation, asserting that these things were true.
No, what is apparent is the fact the NONE of your buds are sticking up you!
You are alone; twisting in the wind.
(Nice try at trying to change the subject though!)
Fido's not in heaven? He's not gone to that big pudding pop in the sky?
HMmmm... they must be ok with THESE then......
No, I'm not. Are you? You say it's "just as true today" at the end of all this vile biblical spewing about jews from the Gospels. Do you stand behind these biblical passages? Does this represent your opinion of jews? Come on Elsie, do you ever actually have an opinion? Or are you going to continue this vile stealth racism under color of selective biblical quotes? People have been excised from this forum for less hateful remarks than these.
I've changed no subject, I've asked you your opinion, and, for some reason, you are shy about delivering it. I wonder why.
I'm not the one who'se sitting on my hands, when all that's needed to clear up this question is to voice my opinion. Let's examine whether or not you think our laws should be derived from biblical sources: are you a supporter of Rowe v. Wade? If not, does that have anything to do with what the bible says?
Ok, what was my mistaken assumption that I am being stubborn about? I simply asked RWP for a reference for his allegation that there was an unnamed group in Kansas that was campainging to set the value of pi at 3 and all I got was a link to a book. I was not given the source, just a link to a place where I might find the allegation repeated.
I suppose if I stated that the earth was created in six 24 hour days and pointed you to the Bible as the source for that allegation, that you would accept it? Or if I provided a link to a Henry Morris book, you would be satisfied? Or would you question the source?
'What do you say when the evos call the creationists "liars"?'
If they telol lies (knowingly posting falsehoods), or post their opinions and call them facts, I say "Bravo!" for calling them on it. If they post falsehoods while believing them to be true, or post opinions I disagree with and call them opinions, I say "Foul! that isn't a lie".
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