Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 17

[Slings and Arrows]

Previous thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1471591/posts

[deetch]

This week, Paulus will likely be legally released form suspicion. This after both the prosecutor and the Chief of Police have stated he is a suspect in the disappearence and aftermath in this case.

We can expect to see more smiling Paulus with a staged press conference and smiling locals.

When will the people of Aruba shun the van der sloot freak show?

[shebacal]

It's a hugh relief for John Walsh to come forward

Typing too fast, and not using spell check. And, it looked right, but then after I posted, I realized it was wrong.

hugh = huge

[RGVTx]

Well, it's not wrong according to FReeperisms.
I liked the idea of Beth using a FReeperism.

I appreciate your lightning fingers...typos and all.

[RGVTx]

Yet what sticks in the craw here is that Aruba has forfeited their right to claim they have, by anyone's account, properly sought to solve this case.
----

Yep, you are absolutely right!

[shebacal]

I have just sent off an e-mail to TES asking of they were able to raise the large cement block to examine it. I am convinced this block is not an upside down mooring block. Awaiting response from TES.

[Canadian Outrage]

Haha - Good question. That's the first thing that came to my mind too. WHO is this kid's father?

[Canadian Outrage]

I have to agree. Aruba can place the blame for their coming monetary woes directly at the feet of the Van der Sloots, Kalopoes, Van der Straaten, Janssen, Dumpig, Jacobsen and the rest of those involved in this case. IF Aruba is willing to get ruined over this family and these criminal Law Enforcement personnel, SO BE IT!!

[Canadian Outrage]

Yeah I agree. It is common in the US and here also, to see "shrines" at the spot on the road say where some teens were killed. Every year a group goes back and has a little ceremony at the shrine. In Natalee's case, I wonder if someone is trying to send a message.

You can be sure however, that it will mean NOTHING to Dumpig and crew.

[shebacal]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9951194/

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Nov. 4th
Read the transcript to the Friday show
Updated: 8:26 p.m. ET Nov. 6, 2005

Guests: Michael Gennaco, Laura Lederer, Norma Hoteling, Kevin Bales, Gary Haugen, Carolyn Maloney, Joe Mammana, Beth Holloway Twitty, Rick Segall, Harold Copus, Terry Gaiser

RITA COSBY, HOST: Good evening, everybody. Tonight, a special LIVE AND DIRECT investigation, inside sex trafficking around the world and here in the United States. There‘s new focus on this global crisis because of an extraordinary turn in the Natalee Holloway case, none other than Dr. Phil going on national TV, telling millions of viewers that he believes Natalee may have been forced into prostitution and is still alive.

DR. PHIL MCGRAW, TALK SHOW HOST: We have reasonable belief and some credible evidence that Natalee Holloway is alive. We don‘t know where she is, but you know, there is a huge sex slave underground in some of those countries.

Snip...
COSBY: And what about the case of Natalee Holloway, which—you know, we‘re not sure whether or not it‘s true or not, but Dr. Phil came out and said that she may be a sex slave and sort of alluded to maybe Venezuela (INAUDIBLE) Cuba, Mexico. Is that a possibility, in your mind?

BALES: It‘s a possibility. It‘s not a—I wouldn‘t say it‘s a high probability. Most of the women who are brought into slavery for sexual exploitation like this are very poor women who can be easily manipulated because they have few resources and very little power in their lives. But it‘s a possibility.

COSBY: I want to show off your Web site before we let you go. Tell us where folks can get information if they need to.

BALES: Well, at Freetheslaves.net. So all one word, Freetheslaves.net. Thank you so much for that.

Snip...
COSBY: And still ahead, everybody, could the Natalee Holloway case be linked to sex trafficking? It‘s a surprising theory Dr. Phil has put out there. But could it be possible?

COSBY: And as we look at the sex trade tonight, we can‘t help but turn our attention to the Natalee Holloway case. This after Dr. Phil went on the Jay Leno show stating that Natalee Holloway could still be alive after being forced into the sex trade.

How is her family reacting to those stunning comments? LIVE & DIRECT tonight is Natalee‘s mom, Beth Holloway Twitty, fresh back from her trip to Aruba. And also with us is philanthropist from the Philadelphia area, Joe Mammana, who has been helping the Holloway family a lot.

You know, Beth, obviously there‘s a temptation you want to grasp and just pray that she‘s alive, but how realistic do you think this theory is?

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: You know, Rita, we don‘t have any idea how realistic it is, you know, but we do know that we‘ve covered the island and, of course, through the EquuSearch, you know, from the sand duns, to the waters, to dumps, ponds. You know, it‘s just been countless.

And, you know, it‘s something the family has never been able to do, is look for Natalee—the possibility of her being alive. So what he is providing us with is, you know, a means to—if she is alive, we need to know that. But also, he thinks that, you know, if she‘s not, then we need answers.

COSBY: Absolutely. You need finality. Have you talked to Dr. Phil?

Has he given you any insight, Beth, as to what this is about?

TWITTY: Oh, well, you know, I think that we‘ve all had theories. And we‘ve all had—you know, Rita, we get leads all the time. And, you know, whether Natalee‘s alive or whether she‘s not alive, I mean, we just have to investigate each one of them.

But as I said, we really just haven‘t had the means to search for Natalee, if she is alive. And we‘ve just—you know, we‘ve had the $1 million reward in place for her safe return. But other than that, that‘s all we‘ve been able to do physically.

COSBY: Has Dr. Phil though—went he went on Jay Leno, Beth, he said, “I have some evidence, but I need to prove it.” Has he given you any sense that there‘s anything concrete to go on this lead? Is there anything, like, to hold your hat on?

TWITTY: Oh, you know, in this investigation, there has been nothing for us to hold our hat on, absolutely nothing. And, you know, Rita, many twists and turns have taken place since May 31st. There‘s absolutely nothing that would surprise me.

COSBY: Nothing, at this point? I mean, is it possible that this could be an issue?

TWITTY: You know, well, all we know for sure is that they participated in a gang rape against a young American female tourist on their island and set these suspects free. We do know that.

Now, what they did with her after they were finished with her, Rita, they tossed her on the beach for somebody to come pick her up, who knows? Did Deepak really bury her? You know, we just don‘t know, Rita.

COSBY: Yes, I‘m sure it is just so frustrating to hear all these different things. I‘m sure it‘s also confusing for you.

You know, we talked to the chief. We talked to Chief Dompig a couple days ago on our show. And I asked him—I said, “Do you think that these boys are guilty as hell?” and he said, “Yes.”

He also went a little further and talked about where he thinks the blame lies. Let‘s take a listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEROLD DOMPIG, DEPUTY POLICY CHIEF OF ARUBA: I still believe that these boys have been lying. They‘re still lying. And everybody knows that by now. So there‘s no doubt in my mind that they know something, they are guilty of something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY: You know, Joe, how frustrated—you‘ve been helping this family a lot. You hear Chief Dompig saying, “I know they‘re guilty. I just need to prove it,” and here it‘s been so many months.

JOE MAMMANA, PHILADELPHIA PHILANTHROPIST: Well, I‘ll be honest with you, Rita. I‘m not as patient or as nice as Beth is. Beth and I talk every day. We had a big dinner tonight in the city of Philadelphia. It was bipartisan. We had Republicans and Democrats, the police commissioner, our attorneys, our P.R. people.

And this is pretty much the foreplay. It‘s Beth‘s daughter. We‘re going to let her take this. But when Beth says go, we‘re going to take a bite at the apple, because we‘re going only going to want one bite. It‘s going to be deep into the core.

And I‘ll be really honest with you. After speaking to the Philadelphia School Board and everybody else, a boycott will be so devastating that they won‘t get a bar of soap on their island when we‘re finished with them.

Again, we‘re letting Beth call this. She‘s been nice for too long, as far as I‘m concerned. These three little pieces of trash over there, OK, they gang raped her daughter. They need to experience a gang rape.

COSBY: Do you think, Joe, it‘s going to get to the point of a boycott? I mean, sounds like, like you feel like it‘s pretty close?

MAMMANA: I‘ll be honest with you, Rita. Yes, it‘s going to go to a boycott. It‘s going to be a devastating boycott. Yes, I do feel that.

COSBY: When do you think that‘s going to happen, Joe?

MAMMANA: I think that‘s going to happen within the next 10 days.

COSBY: You do?

MAMMANA: And I‘ll tell you another thing is, I receive a lot of calls, a lot of e-mails, a lot of things from around the world now. And there‘s a lot of people after these kids. I mean, they have made a lot of enemies, not just the Holloway family.

And, I‘ll tell you, they need to really watch out for themselves, because they‘ve made enemies around the world. And I think a boycott is going to turn—you know, divide and conquer. It‘s going to turn the Aruban people against them.

And I hope that the Aruban people watch this and realize that this doesn‘t have to happen. Maybe they need to handle justice themselves on their own island.

COSBY: Let me bring in, if I could, former FBI agent Harold Copus into the conversation.

Harold, what is your sense on how a boycott would impact this investigation?

HAROLD COPUS, FORMER FBI AGENT: Oh, I think it would be fantastic, because all of a sudden we‘d some push here to make these people realize they‘ve got to give us a good, thorough investigation, which they haven‘t to date.

COSBY: You know, Harold, you‘ve been down in Aruba, as Beth and I have, too. Beth has been there, gosh—Beth, how many times have you been down there now?

TWITTY: Oh, Rita. Well, I lived there for almost four months so...

COSBY: Yes, you‘ve become basically a citizen down there. Bless your heart. You have been working so hard on this.

You know, Harold, when you see this, and you see this mother who has just been so determined and so, you know, just loves her daughter, wants a resolution, is a boycott maybe the only thing that‘s going to push this forward?

COPUS: It may be. We don‘t seem to have anything else working for us, from an investigative standpoint. I felt for some time that might be an answer. I‘ve said it Beth privately. And it sounds like it‘s going to come out now publicly.

COSBY: And, Harold, real quick, do you give any credence to the theory from Dr. Phil that she may be alive?

COPUS: I think there‘s no more than a 20-percent chance. There are some things that would indicate that Natalee could have been moved off the island into the sex trade act ring. That‘s horrible, if it is, but there‘s always that chance.

COSBY: Beth, how you feel finally, as we‘re talking about a boycott and where things stand in the investigation? I know you‘re frustrated. Would you support a boycott, if it comes to that, in 10 days, like Joe is talking about?

TWITTY: Well, I know one thing, Rita: What the family wants is we want answers. And we want a willingness to conduct a thorough and proper investigation. And we have yet to get that.

They see the handwriting on the wall. I made it perfectly clear while I was in Aruba for the three days that the family wants a new prosecuting attorney, a new lead investigator. And we felt it out step by step in the letter of everything that has happened to us in this investigation.

They know that there is not a choice. So, you know, if they choose it, so be it, Rita.

COSBY: So you think it‘s pretty close to heading there that ways, Beth?

TWITTY: Well, we‘re waiting to hear the final word, if they‘re willing to launch a new investigative team.

COSBY: All right, Beth. Please keep us posted. Everybody, thank you, Beth, so much.

And thank you, Joe.

And also Harold. Thank you.

Well, still ahead, everybody, it may look like a makeshift memorial to Natalee Holloway. But does it hold an important clue to what happened to the missing teen?

Details next on LIVE & DIRECT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSBY: Tonight, there‘s hope that a makeshift memorial to Natalee Holloway could hold clues as to what happened to her. The simple cross with her initials is now on a beach in Aruba not far from where she was apparently last seen.

But it‘s not so much the memorial that could hold the clues but where it is.

Joining me now is Rick Segall with “America‘s Most Wanted.” Rick, how did you stumble upon this memorial?

RICK SEGALL, “AMERICA‘S MOST WANTED”: We were down in Aruba all last week with Dave Holloway. And we spoke to the police chief. Dave spoke to Deputy Chief Dompig, as well.

The chief told Dave Holloway that new information had come in that, around the time of Natalee‘s disappearance, perhaps the night after she disappeared, a boat went out from a particular boat launch there on the beach and supposedly took a body out into the sea and dumped the body.

So Dave went to take a look at that spot. And when he was there on the beach, he literally stumbled across this cross that was sitting there, had Natalee‘s initials carved into it, rosary beads. And on first glance, it looks like a perfectly sweet memorial.

The problem is there is no reason on Earth for that memorial to be in that spot. And here‘s why: About 300 yards down the beach, there are a set of fishing huts that have become infamous.

COSBY: Yep, I was down there. I remember. And that‘s where the knife was missing. There‘s also that cage nearby that‘s missing?

SEGALL: Exactly. Exactly. They‘re infamous. Everybody knows about it on the island.

So it would make sense that a memorial might be there. But this new information—this is fresh information that had just come into the police. And here Dave goes to take a look at this spot, and there is this cross that has initials carved into it, rosary beads, and there‘s no reason for it to be there unless it‘s from somebody who knows something or has a guilty conscience.

COSBY: When was it constructed, Rick? Do we have any idea how long it‘s been there?

SEGALL: According to locals that we spoke to, they say it‘s been there anywhere from three to five weeks. So this is something that‘s popped up recently.

And Dave‘s theory, and our theory, too, is somebody knows something. And that‘s one of the reasons we‘re airing the show tomorrow night, is we need that person or those people to come forward.

And it‘s common knowledge, it‘s no surprise. A lot of Arubans have lost confidence in the investigation that‘s taking place down there. And we spoke to people who said, you know, they‘re not sure that tips should be going to the Aruban police department. It seems the investigation might be in disarray.

So tomorrow night, there‘s going to be three investigators at the “America‘s Most Wanted” hotline, three FBI agents. And we want those tips to come in. If there is information, 1-800-CRIME-TV, or AMW.com. Those tips will be followed up on.

COSBY: All right, Rick. Thank you very much. Really fascinating. Again, everybody to make sure to watch “America‘s Most Wanted.” Very important stuff.

Thank you, Rick, very much. We appreciate it.

SEGALL: Thank you.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9951194/

[Canadian Outrage]

I watched that show Shebacal and I also watched Line Up last night with John Walsh. John Walsh is absolutely certain that Natalee was murdered. He doesn't buy the sex trade angle at all and neither do I. I never have.

I also think Tim Miller was right in his suspicion that Dompig wouldn't make that simple request to the FBI for the proper equipment that could search down to 800 to 1000 feet because perhaps that was too close for comfort and Dompig didn't want them to get that close.

At the same time, I still can't get the Van der Sloot property out of my mind and the dump. When you think of it, the dump is so perfect. Especially in a country like that where medial waste is not separated and dealt with seperately, and anythiing thrown into the dump is buried deeper every day. Also, WHY when they had excavated down to the area of about May 26th (newspapers found from that date) did the Arubans come and backfill that huge area in during the night? Then, they couldn't get a new permit to start back RE-excavating all over again. EVERYTHING about this investigation STINKS to high heaven. The whole world can see now just how BAD it was.

I LOVED it last night on Line Up when Beth actually said, CORRUPTION and COLLUSION. I thought Yeah Beth, scream it from the roof tops (the media) every chance you get. And then Jossy actually printing the letter in Diario is also good. Let the Arubans read for themselves what has been done to these good people.

[shebacal]

From Rita, very interesting:

JOE MAMMANA: But when Beth says go, we‘re going to take a bite at the apple, because we‘re going only going to want one bite. It‘s going to be deep into the core'

...a boycott will be so devastating that they won‘t get a bar of soap on their island when we‘re finished with them.

They (J+K-2's) need to experience a gang rape.

Yes, it‘s going to go to a boycott. It‘s going to be a devastating boycott. Yes, I do feel that.

I think that‘s going to happen within the next 10 days.

And, I‘ll tell you, they need to really watch out for themselves, because they‘ve made enemies around the world. And I think a boycott is going to turn—you know, divide and conquer. It‘s going to turn the Aruban people against them.

Maybe they need to handle justice themselves on their own island.

RICK SEGALL, “AMERICA‘S MOST WANTED”: The chief told Dave Holloway that new information had come in that, around the time of Natalee‘s disappearance, perhaps the night after she disappeared, a boat went out from a particular boat launch there on the beach and supposedly took a body out into the sea and dumped the body.

So Dave went to take a look at that spot. And when he was there on the beach, he literally stumbled across this cross that was sitting there, had Natalee‘s initials carved into it, rosary beads.

And Dave‘s theory, and our theory, too, is somebody knows something. And that‘s one of the reasons we‘re airing the show tomorrow night, is we need that person or those people to come forward.

And we spoke to people who said, you know, they‘re not sure that tips should be going to the Aruban police department. It seems the investigation might be in disarray.

So tomorrow night, there‘s going to be three investigators at the “America‘s Most Wanted” hotline, three FBI agents. And we want those tips to come in. If there is information, 1-800-CRIME-TV, or AMW.com. Those tips will be followed up on.

[Canadian Outrage]

That's really something when the people don't think that tips should go to the Aruban police. Tells ya something doesn't it?

[Canadian Outrage]

OKAY - WHERE is everyone?????? I have a day off and nobody is around. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[shebacal]

Here's a game of connect the dots.

Koen G.
Koen, or father, has a boat?

..talked with a local and was told Alexander G is related to the sloots. It sounds like Koen and Joran are cousins

Addresses from:
arubayellowpages

G., Alexander
Malmokweg

G., Alexander
Lucianitastraat

Is home of AG at Malmokweg near Malmok Beach? TES was searching waters off Malmok Beach.

5/30/05 - 9:00 am?...Two “beach bums” don’t report for work at a local surfshop. Both still missing without a trace.

Map from:
www.arubatravelinfo.com

Click map in lower right corner to enlarge, shows that Aruba Board Sailing School is just south of Malmok Beach.

Fishermen's huts are north of Marriott Hotel, where Urine supposedly dropped Natalee at beach.

The cross seen by Dave is north about 300 yards from fishermen's huts.

There is a boat launch near there.

If this is all true, and the dots are all connected, are we left with just another bunch of coincidences?

[shebacal]

I hope whoever put up the cross will call AMW and do some talking.

[No Surrender No Retreat]

Evening CO,
Great post and the world would be a better place without chavez.

Actually he looks like a mericom MF and ugly to say the least.

I am about tired of W kissing the muslims asses.

I was so proud of him his first term, now he is so pacicfist on the religion of piss.

Maybe our (USA) leaders have forgotten, if the viper bites any American, then it bites them.

We need some real men and women in our congress and senate, POTUS also.

I am sick of this cowardly P.C. stance especially in the Holloway case.

You are as American as I, and I am proud to be your friend.
What would Atilla Do,
NSNR-WNA

[seekthetruth]

I do too! Also wonder what is taking the Dutch so long to decide whether the tape of the K brother has been altered or not? Sure it isn't!!

[Canadian Outrage]

Thank you NSNR - DITTO!! I'm proud to call you my friend also. I think I'm an American born in Canada.

[Canadian Outrage]

PS - I also was really proud of President Bush in the first term. I was thrilled that he won a second term but since then everything seems to have gone downhill. I am so revolted by the pacifist tact regarding Islam. It's a bloody religion and everybody knows it. You DO NOT appease those who are determined to kill you. I am sorry to say that President Bush appears to be being bitten by those who supported him in the first place and it's because he's become a pacifist. WHY doesn't he stand up and fight? Why frankly don't Republicans stick together and fight? Conservatives always seem to fall apart from within because they don't seem to have the stomach to get into the fight and stick together. They collectively need to learn to bloody some noses.

[RGVTx]

It's easy to believe the dots are connected.

Thanks for the outline. I need the extra aid in sorting things out today because a migraine got a hold of me and won't let go.