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To: qam1

This is just a natural change in society. With technological and economic progress, people want different things from their living and family arrangements than they used to. Those who are constantly wailing about how awful it is that the "nuclear family" is increasingly scarce, are conveniently forgetting that most of the people who are now choosing NOT to participate in such arrangements, did grow up in a "nuclear family" household. It must not have been nearly as wonderful as its cheerleaders claim, or more young adults would have fond memories of living in such families, and want to form similar ones. They certainly aren't making their choices out of ignorance of what "nuclear family" life is like.


7 posted on 09/15/2005 9:44:30 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: GovernmentShrinker
This is just a natural change in society.

The name of that "natural change" is "death". Not many children, and the children there are will be raised without fathers. Plenty of evidence that fatherless kids end up with all sorts of issues not conducive to civilized behavior.

You want to see the ultimate result of that "natural change"? Look at New Orleans when the lights went out.

11 posted on 09/15/2005 9:47:41 AM PDT by Campion (Truth is not determined by a majority vote -- Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

The change is natural, it is called the death of Western Civilization. Not by the sword, but by suicide. We in the west have simply decided not to continue on beyond ourselves. Most have become so short sighted that raising the next generation is viewed as a threat.

So revile in the past, and realize that the future has been aborted.


15 posted on 09/15/2005 9:50:25 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
If it weren't for the fact that

a) The Muslims are having a lot of babies
and
b) The Social Security ponzi schemes

This wouldn't necessary be a bad thing. There's already too many people on this planet.

16 posted on 09/15/2005 9:52:49 AM PDT by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Huge numbers of those kids grew up in broken homes, have come not to trust relationships. It's not a natural shift, although it's happened in the past, too, especially near the end of the Roman empire when it became really a pain to try to raise a family because of the economic strictures the later emperors put on economic development...it's a shift away from the future, spawned not by the Xers, and not started by the boomers, although they were involved in it, but by a self-indulgent meme that perculated through a lot of the 20th century that decided a person's right to self-fulfillment meant that they could dump on the backs of their kids, leaving their kids in precarious situations.

Societies with weak family structures and no kids tend to crash when crisis time comes. The future will see if this paradigm holds true this time around.


17 posted on 09/15/2005 9:54:58 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
Those who are constantly wailing about how awful it is that the "nuclear family" is increasingly scarce, are conveniently forgetting that most of the people who are now choosing NOT to participate in such arrangements, did grow up in a "nuclear family" household. It must not have been nearly as wonderful as its cheerleaders claim, or more young adults would have fond memories of living in such families, and want to form similar ones. They certainly aren't making their choices out of ignorance of what "nuclear family" life is like.

I think you nailed it.

18 posted on 09/15/2005 9:58:01 AM PDT by meowmeow (Meow! Meow!)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Growing up I had a wonderful, blessed "nuclear family" life.

But I have never, and I mean never, wanted children.

My spouse is pretty much the same.

We may get a cat or two someday. :o)


22 posted on 09/15/2005 10:02:07 AM PDT by k2blader (Hic sunt dracones..)
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To: GovernmentShrinker

I wonder how many who opine that the nuclear family is overrated will still feel that way years down the road, sitting alone in a nursing home with no children and extended family to take them in and give them dignified care in the final, often difficult, years?


29 posted on 09/15/2005 10:24:28 AM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: GovernmentShrinker
Those who are constantly wailing about how awful it is that the "nuclear family" is increasingly scarce, are conveniently forgetting that most of the people who are now choosing NOT to participate in such arrangements, did grow up in a "nuclear family" household.

Actually, I'd be willing to bet that most people choosing NOT to participate in a nuclear family were the products of dysfunctional nuclear families themselves. I would argue that many of these families were missing one vital component--an active religious life.

The traditional nuclear family by itself is not a panecea for all of society's ills. A nuclear family without God is just as likely to fail as any other random household unit.
68 posted on 09/15/2005 11:35:00 AM PDT by Antoninus (Dominus Iesus, miserere nobis.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
This is just a natural change in society.

Like in ancient Rome. At some moment Romans stopped to have children and they got replaced by the barbarians.

89 posted on 09/15/2005 12:19:22 PM PDT by A. Pole (" There is no other god but Free Market, and Adam Smith is his prophet ! Bazaar Akbar! ")
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Ok, I'll bite. What do you think is a better arrangement?


99 posted on 09/15/2005 12:33:10 PM PDT by Melas (The dumber the troll, the longer the thread)
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To: GovernmentShrinker; qam1; A. Pole
This is just a natural change in society. With technological and economic progress, people want different things from their living and family arrangements than they used to. Those who are constantly wailing about how awful it is that the "nuclear family" is increasingly scarce, are conveniently forgetting that most of the people who are now choosing NOT to participate in such arrangements, did grow up in a "nuclear family" household. It must not have been nearly as wonderful as its cheerleaders claim, or more young adults would have fond memories of living in such families, and want to form similar ones. They certainly aren't making their choices out of ignorance of what "nuclear family" life is like.

Marriage is not simply a pact between two people.

Rather it is a pact between two people and society.

The decline of marriage in the West has more to to with the unfaithfulness of society to marriage.

When one examines history, one sees that this decline of traditional values is always accompanied by the fall and/or conquest of that society.

Societies, like individuals, grow soft and weak without the exercise of struggle, and are soon replaced by struggling societies that are lean, hungry, tough, fit, and aggressive.

People and society are both destroyed by ease.

But I do agree with you, qam1, that the earth is overpopulated.

And that overpopulation means there is shortage in the world, which means somewhere people are struggling and becoming lean, hungry, tough, fit, and aggressive.

The current crop of would be choice-and-master-spirits of our age, hope by spreading prosperity to all nations to thereby enervate them, and so bring peace to mankind by making the world too fat for war.

Anyway, that's their scheme.

204 posted on 09/16/2005 5:20:00 AM PDT by Age of Reason
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