Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 15

I think you're right because the original poster has never given a link to the actual source.

The only link was aruba.com

I went there and this is the original poster: "Follow the money. The Germans have. Author: Dayo (---.bchsia.telus.net) Date: 08-18-05 09:12 This is breaking in Europe. Here is the article in German: "Washington,DC USA"

Now, when you mouse over "dayo" you get this email address: thejaygould@hotmail.com

LOL Good grief I am now learning investigative reporting ;)

Maybe someone can email this person and ask for proof of the link??

Tony Green=the Michael Moore of Aruba

using logic

Yeah. You lost them right there. :o)

... perhaps JvdS's psychologist. ;-D

http://www.chochs.org.jm/organization/pastpresidents.htm

Dr. Tony Green
Chairman and President of CHOCHS International

US trained Psychologist, author and international speaker

Tony A.D. Green, native of Aruba in the Dutch Caribbean,

former Director of Aruba*s Hotel School - Colegio EPI,

Director of H.O.P.E. Seminars and Consulting.

Author of national bestseller, Menopause-Its Implications and

Management, Telephone Techniques-A Manual for the Telephone Operator, When Something Goes Wrong, and soon to be released, Tips for Becoming Tops, and numerous papers and articles in newspaper columns and magazines.

For seven consecutive years has been producer and host of his own weekly television Talk Show.

Considered by audiences both local and international as a formidable, engaging, electrifying speaker who keeps his audience on the edge of their seat with his humor and alliterated style.

Hey CO,
Thank you. NSNR

This matter/investigation/public-info campaign has become desperate and shameless from the aruban side.....and is becoming moreso every day......and I still suggest/observe that the degree and audacity of it began to escalate dramatically from the day that ERNIE RIZZO entered the picture inplying that he had been retained as an "investigator" for VDS.

I read an article that was very complimentary, (sorry, wish I could find it again) to Beth, and the author referred to her as a "energizer mama" you know like the energizer bunny?

I thought that was cute, she just keeps going and going and going.

Sorry folks but friends email me links and I go and read them but never remember to save the email, than I go back and ask them if they saved the link and most times they haven't saved it either because of the volume of blogs and boards and forums on Natalee it's almost impossible to keep track anymore.

More clap trap from a TV psycho type. As someone once told me "Show me one person a psychologist/psychiatrist has actually cured." There may be some Freepers that can show me one but I can't think of any.

Aruba daily publication A.M. Digital maligned Natalee Holloway and her Mother Beth Twitty in Friday's issue and suggested the island needs to move on from the case in an extended piece with Psychologist Tony Green.

I believe this website is the "AM Digital" mentioned above....several Natalee articles on it.....

http://news.caribseek.com/AM_Digital.shtml

So lets say they dont find a body by Sep 4th. If they let Joran go, what then happens with this story? Does the media continue to report it.

Imho the reporting on this case is diminishing already. If what I was hearing yesterday is true I do not look for Joran to be released on Sept 4th regardless of whether they found Natalee's body or not. The way it sounds he will be retained for at least another 30 days.

I googled his email and got one response....it is here:

http://powellriverbc.com/forum/reply.asp?message=2863&replyID=17906&level=1

LOL NSNR.

I think tony Green should stick to his cooking school, he obviously knows little about American tourists and how to attract them to the "one happy island". Maybe he is using "reverse psychology"?

You guys are good ;)

So he is from Canada. Wonder what his agenda is. Interesting.

I've read some of the posts where his email appears....they are interested in a drug-smuggling boat.....some of them appear to have personal involvement in the case and aftermath......

http://powellriverbc.com/forum/reply.asp?message=2863&replyID=19904&level=4

Today Beth met with Aruba Prime Minister. MSNBC reporting that the meeting just wrapped up. No word at this time what the meeting was about. Beth was looking for more access to the case. Not sure if Beth got any committment from Oduber.

"The dutch are just a bunch of hedonistic, unmoral,and dillusional (be someumpins). THe VDS's are a prime example of their kind, and probably serve as a role model for all dutch to emulate."

A number of years ago we were well acquainted with a somewhat well to do Dutch couple, the husband, a famous engineer in Holland. From their own description, their children, having the greatest of advantages were a complete mess, so hedonistic and irresponsible, they were unable to finish at the university.

When this case broke, I thought of them and noted Deepak, Satish and Joran were all into gangsta rap. And there was a segment in the beginning aired on Fox in which Mrs. VDS defensively admits to having given Joran his own apartment because they believed he had demonstrated he could handle such independence.

What foolish, foolish, people. Firstly, Joran wasn't "independent" he wasn't footing the bills, his parents were. What they allowed him was the freedom to do whatever he wanted without the accompanying responsibility. NO child could handle something like that and I would venture to say few adults would be able to deal with it constructively.

Secondly, indulging children thusly, creates self-centered, spoiled, monsters who care nothing for anyone but themselves.

Joran has little or no conscience. He and the two brothers have held Aruba and America hostage for the last two months and have watched many, many people jump through hoops to locate Natalee. Not a peep out of them as to her whereabouts.

I understand many of the foibles and blunders of this case, and the possibility some officials may be trying to protect Joran. It's still astounding that NONE of the three, as young as they are, and as much publicity, intensity and pressure as this case has generated, has broken. Perhaps they are enjoying their gansta fantasy.

Perhaps they are enjoying their gansta fantasy.

Its a fantasy alright, in a real world they would have been whacked and taking a dirt nap already...

I would like to see Beth and Dave go over his head.....when I looked into the power structure of the govt of aruba weeks ago I found that "the executive power lies with the Governor-General, appointed by the Dutch Monarchy".

Is it possible that they mistakenly believe that they are at the top of the food chain with Oduber?

Oh this and Arlene Ellis Schipper's statements last night on Nancy Grace shows some consorted effort to stifle CNN and Nancy Grace (Aruba only gets CNN on cable tv).

Nancy Grace for August 19, 2005, CNNHN

Aired August 19, 2005 - 20:00:00 ET

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Tonight: Pressure builds in Aruba. Joran Van Der Sloot`s lawyers say prosecutors are hiding evidence in the Natalee Holloway case. And she is back behind bars. Catholic school teacher Sandra "Beth" Geisel, at the center of a student sex scandal, gets arrested again.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace. Thanks for being with us tonight.

Young, beautiful, in love, George and Jennifer Smith were living a fairy tale. But just days into their honeymoon cruise, the newlywed groom vanished in the middle of the ocean. Investigators are following the scent of money, alcohol and blood to solve this mystery.

And stunning developments in the teacher sex scandal plaguing a Catholic school. Sandra "Beth" Geisel, accused of the statutory rape of a young student, arrested again today.

But first: Battles raging in an Aruban courtroom in the case of missing teen Natalee Holloway. Lawyers for suspect Joran Van Der Sloot are saying the prosecution is withholding critical information.

Tonight, joining us by phone in Aruba, managing editor of "Diario," Jossy Mansur. Also, Aruban attorney Arlene Ellis-Schipper. In West Palm Beach, Florida, defense attorney Michelle Suskauer. In Houston, Texas, former prosecutor Nelda Luce Blair. And here in New York, psychologist Lisa Kaplan Ashenmil.

But first to Birmingham, Alabama and Paul Finebaum from the Paul Finebaum Radio Network. That, of course, is Natalee`s hometown. Paul, what is the very latest?

PAUL FINEBAUM, ALABAMA RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, the latest here is a great deal of confusion. This is a story that, as you well know -- you`ve been covering as well as anyone -- has been going on and on and on, and there is a tremendous disconnect here. We really don`t hear much about this case in Birmingham and in the surrounding areas on the local television stations. It`s way back in the newscast, in the local newspapers. You can barely find the story. On our radio show, which is heard throughout the South, it rarely ever comes up. However, you put on cable television, it`s there. There`s a tremendous disconnect. It`s a tale of two cities in Birmingham.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is wild. You`d think that would be the lead story every night because everybody around the world is talking about it. Why not?

FINEBAUM: Well, there`s a lot of people that wonder about that, whether because of the background of the city, whether -- Mountain Brook, Alabama, is a very elite community. I`m not really sure what those explanations are. I do know that for a week or two or three or four, it really was the dominant story, but for whatever reason -- and I can`t explain it, I can try to -- it has moved quickly and dramatically off the front pages.

And there is also some -- I wouldn`t say it`s resentment, Jane, I`d say there`s a little bit of awareness and suspicion of what you people are doing, what other cable networks are doing. A lot of people here think that the networks across the dial have latched onto this story for obvious reasons and really don`t care that much about Natalee Holloway or her family. They`re using the family, the family is using you people, and that`s what a lot of people in...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we just lost him, but we got his point. Obviously, he feels that the media is sort of using this story. But I think it`s captivated the nation because it is such a mystery.

And one of the reasons it`s a mystery, that there`s very little new information. Let`s go to Jossy Mansur, managing director of "Diario." We have you by phone. Jossy, what is the latest? Delay after delay! Joran Van Der Sloot has been sitting in jail for eight days now without being interrogated, as the clock ticks down to September 4, when he might be released. Why has he not been interrogated?

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": You know, on that I cannot answer because that`s up to the prosecution and the police. Whether they`re interrogating him or not is a matter for the detectives and the people that work over in the prosecution. I can`t answer that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, maybe we can get to somebody who can answer that. Let`s go to Arlene Schipper. She is an Aruban defense attorney, but perhaps more important, she`s a former prosecutor. She knows all the prosecutors in this case. She has been following this from the very beginning. Why the delay?

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well, I have to correct you. I`m not a former prosecutor. I was an assistant to the prosecutor. That`s first. The delay, from what I understand, has been only for the second day now that Joran has not been interviewed. I, as well...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait, let me stop you right there. Did you just say it`s only the second day since Joran has not been interviewed?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, from what I understand -- of course, I don`t have regular contact with the police. From what I understand from information that gets to us, it is the second day that he has not been interviewed.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, well, I`m going to stop you right there. I want to talk to you some more, but let`s go to the woman on the scene here in New York who seems to know everything about this case. She`s tracked it for us. Ellie (ph), my understanding, we talked about this, eight days since he has been interviewed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, that was our understanding, right. The last time he was interrogated, Thursday of last week, as far as we know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thursday of last week.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From what we hear.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think this is an illustration of why this case is so confusing. I mean, these are really basic facts, whether or not he has been interviewed or not.

But Arlene, I`d like you to continue, and I`d like to ask you a question about resentment because we heard a reporter talking in Natalee`s hometown about the people there in Alabama kind of resenting this massive coverage. I understand the people in Aruba are also resenting the massive coverage. Why?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, it`s not so much resentment. They understand very much why the family wants this massive coverage, and it takes nothing away from a girl to get this massive coverage and other girls that they don`t get. They understand that if you have pull and they understand the appeal of this story. However, what bothers the people here in Aruba are very unfounded remarks directed towards the Aruban people, who are very heartfelt with the family, and actually have nothing, no blame in this story whatsoever.

I mean, in your program, Nancy Grace on several and numerous occasions, has made such unfounded and very unfair remarks.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, I...

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: ... and that serves no purpose...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, give me an example. Give me an example.

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, I can give you an example of remarks that serve absolutely no purpose other than to ridiculize people...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, just give me one example.

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: ... who are involved...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... and then we`d like to talk to our psychologist.

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, for instance, when the pond -- for instance, when the pond was drained, those efforts were ridiculized, like -- with remarks like, What are they doing in Aruba? They`re clueless. They`re pumping it with a bicycle pump. Those remarks really hurt the people of Aruba. And you have to understand, all the resources -- we are a small community. There has -- all the resources that we have been allocated into this case, and then to be badgered like this, it just hurts people here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And to clarify, you`re not a former prosecutor, but you did work in the prosecutor`s office, so you are acquainted with some of the folks who are handling this case, right? You know some of the people who are prosecuting this case.

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Yes, I know some of the people who are prosecuting this case. I have worked there before. Karin Janssen I have not worked with. However, Ameline (INAUDIBLE), the second prosecutor who is involved in this case, I know her personally. She`s a very good prosecutor. She`s a person of high integrity, and I hold her in very high esteem. So I do trust our system.

And I`m the first one and the Aruban people are the first ones to criticize how the case was handled in the beginning. We are not people that just sweet-talk any mistake. We are very critical about those things, but remarks and criticism have to be founded and based upon real facts.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, let`s look at some of the criticism in a moment.

But first, I`d like to go to our psychologist here in New York, Lisa Kaplan Ashenmil. Why all this tension, resentment? This is the second day running. I mean, we heard from the searchers, one of the search teams is thinking of suing the other search team. There is a tremendous amount of tension surrounding this case right now.

LISA KAPLAN ASHENMIL, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, there`s a lot of pressure. We`re all looking for information and data, and it`s just not coming forward. And I think what`s happening is, people are feeling like, I can do it better. No, I can do it better, and they`re getting very upset with one another. And it`s easier to take it out than...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the fact that there is no resolution, there are no new answers coming forward, that increases -- it`s like a pressure cooker.

ASHENMIL: That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Every day that passes and we don`t get more evidence and we don`t get a break in the case, it`s like this pressure cooker keeps gets tighter and tighter, and people are really feeling the stress.

ASHENMIL: And they`re feeling desperate to get information, and they`re not getting it. And as a result, they`re going to become more hostile, more irritable and take things out on one another.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And who is feeling the pressure most ? Natalee Holloway`s mother. Let`s hear what she has to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE`S MOTHER: I`m just going to have to wait until September the 4th. I`m just going to have to wait to experience it, to see what we`re going to do.

We`re always thinking and putting different things into motion. As far as Deepak and Satish, I`m not giving up that they will not be re- arrested. I just -- I still think that that is a strong possibility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, well, let`s look a little bit at some of the points that had been mentioned by critics in terms of possible bungling by some of the Aruban authorities. First of all, according to reports, they didn`t impound the Kalpoe brothers` car for 10 days, which we know Natalee was in the night she disappeared. While they took in various people who turned out to be in the clear, they did not take in Joran Van Der Sloot or the Kalpoe brothers for 10 days, and some felt that that allowed them possibly to get their stories together, what have you.

Let`s go to former prosecutor Nelda Luce Blair. She is in Houston, Texas. I assume you`re listening to all of this, Nelda. What are your thoughts on all this anger in Aruba right now, given some of those points that I just mentioned, criticisms of how Aruban authorities have handled this case?

NELDA LUCE BLAIR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, there`s no question that those mess-ups from the beginning have certainly fueled the fire for people who are already upset with how the case is being handled. No question. And Arlene was correct. You know, there`s so many people there. They`re all trying to do their best jobs of trying to find out what happened to Ms. Holloway. And they`re going to cross over each other`s lines. It`s a small area. It`s going to be a difficult time, especially with the media attention.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and...

BLAIR: Go ahead.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, certainly, Natalee Holloway`s family is absolutely thrilled that she is keeping this story alive because it puts pressure on the authorities to solve this case, and she has been beating this drum and saying, Let`s come up with answers. So she may use a casual phrase to describe something, but her heart`s in the right place. She wants to find Natalee. She wants to find out what happened to Natalee.

Jossy Mansur, managing director of "Diario," you`re in Aruba. What are you sensing, in terms of the desire for truth from Aruban people? They want to know what happened, don`t they?

MANSUR: But of course they do. They`ve been after this from the beginning. The only thing we are interested in, as an Aruban people, is for the truth to come out, for this girl to be found in whatever shape she`s in, to be returned to her parents, so they can go back home, and they start their lives or start the mending process if anything bad happened to her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michelle Suskauer, defense attorney, you have covered a lot of high-profile cases. Is this typical or is this really reaching a new level in terms of tension, resentment, argument, counter-argument? It`s pretty amazing.

MICHELLE SUSKAUER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It really is. And you know, there`s so much frustration, obviously. And this is the worst thing that`s ever happened to Aruba. This is the worst light that they`ve ever been in. And they depend on tourism. They want this solved, obviously. They don`t like the light that they`re in right now. They want everybody to go away, so that people will start visiting Aruba. So they`re very frustrated, but everybody is very frustrated.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me jump in right there because my understanding is that tourism is not down in Aruba. If anything, it could well be up. Jossy Mansur, what do you know about that?

MANSUR: Well, you can`t find a room anywhere in Aruba. You can`t find a seat in any plane that`s coming to Aruba. And we`re (INAUDIBLE) from Miami-Dade and from Puerto Rico, from New York. I mean, I don`t see any drop whatsoever. On the contrary, you are right that there is an increase.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the vast majority of those tourists are American, are they not?

MANSUR: Almost totally.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, there you go. I think there is a tremendous love and affection between the people of America and the people of Aruba. I think the one thing that stands in the way is this big mystery, What happened to Natalee Holloway? And I know that Nancy Grace is back on Monday, and she is not going to rest until she finds out. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TWITTY: I just know that we have -- we have to have answers, and I know the answers are right here. The answers are right here on the island and, you know, we expect to get them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace, who, as we know, is doing everything she can to help solve this mystery in Aruba by keeping the pressure on, by keeping the spotlight focused on it.

We are talking about Natalee Holloway`s disappearance. And with every day that passes, it looks more and more like it could be a murder that might never be solved. If her remains are never found, could other charges are filed against suspect Joran Van Der Sloot, who has not been charged, it`s important to mention, with anything at this point?

Let`s hear what Natalee`s mom has to say about that issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TWITTY: There are so many different theories that we`ve -- that we`ve come up with in our family. We just go back to the two things that we know happened. And we know that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe and Joran Van Der Sloot took Natalee from Carlos and Charlie`s. And you know, I`ve not made it any secret that, you know, Joran Van Der Sloot had confessed in these sexual assaults that he committed against Natalee to us, her family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So let`s go back now to Aruba and attorney Arlene Ellis-Schipper. What are your thoughts and what`s your information on other possible charges that could -- and I say could -- be filed possibly against Joran Van Der Sloot?

ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, first of all, "charge" is not a legal term in our lingo. What we have is first the arrest, and then, of course, counts, what you tell the suspect of what they`re being held for.

As what Joran Van Der Sloot at this moment is being held for in pre- trial detention ranges from murder to kidnapping, and from what I understand recently, also sexual misconduct with a person that is not conscious. Well, basically, I have not heard that confirmed by authorities, but those are some of the counts that he could be held for.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, so Nelda Luce Blair, former prosecutor, if we don`t know what happened that night, except from the statements of the Kalpoe brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot himself, how do you come up with those charges? How do you determine that, for example, it wasn`t consensual?

BLAIR: Well, you absolutely do it from those statements. There`s no question that you can use any type of evidence, and if you don`t have a person or a body and you don`t have any other physical evidence, then you go with what the stories are of those people in the know. And if Arlene`s correct and he has confessed to some kind of sexual misconduct, obviously, he should be charged with it, whether it`s called charge or count or whatever.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And quickly, back to Jossy Mansur in Aruba. Is there a sense of tension tonight? We only have a few seconds, but what do you sense in Aruba from the people of Aruba, as this mystery continues on with no break in the case, really?

MANSUR: The people have certain tensions, of course, because we got so few information that is given out by the prosecution or the police, who have all the information that we don`t.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And exactly...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that`s what the defense says. They say they`re not being given the information by the prosecution, and they want that information, as well. So that`s another hearing on Monday that Joran has to attend and yet another delay because when he`s in a hearing, he can`t be interrogated, correct?

MANSUR: No, there will be a sentence on Monday. The hearing already took place with regards to the appeal that the lawyer of Joran made.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. OK. So we could find out...

MANSUR: ... information.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... good information. Thank you, Jossy. We could find out, essentially, Monday if the defense is going to get more files from the prosecution. So Monday could be a big day.