Bush supports 'intelligent design'

President Bush waded into the debate over evolution and "intelligent design" Monday, saying schools should teach both theories on the creation and complexity of life.

In a wide-ranging question-and-answer session with a small group of reporters, Bush essentially endorsed efforts by Christian conservatives to give intelligent design equal standing with the theory of evolution in the nation's schools.

Bush declined to state his personal views on "intelligent design," the belief that life forms are so complex that their creation cannot be explained by Darwinian evolutionary theory alone, but rather points to intentional creation, presumably divine.

The theory of evolution, first articulated by British naturalist Charles Darwin in 1859, is based on the idea that life organisms developed over time through random mutations and factors in nature that favored certain traits that helped species survive.

Scientists concede that evolution does not answer every question about the creation of life, and most consider intelligent design an attempt to inject religion into science courses.

Bush compared the current debate to earlier disputes over "creationism," a related view that adheres more closely to biblical explanations. While he was governor of Texas, Bush said students should be exposed to both creationism and evolution.

On Monday, the president said he favors the same approach for intelligent design "so people can understand what the debate is about."

The Kansas Board of Education is considering changes to encourage the teaching of intelligent design in Kansas schools, and some are pushing for similar changes across the country.

"I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought," Bush said. "You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas. The answer is 'yes.'"

The National Academy of Sciences and the American Association for the Advancement of Science both have concluded there is no scientific basis for intelligent design and oppose its inclusion in school science classes. [Note from PH: links relevant to those organizations and their positions on ID are added by me at the end of this article.]

Some scientists have declined to join the debate, fearing that amplifying the discussion only gives intelligent design more legitimacy.

Advocates of intelligent design also claim support from scientists. The Discovery Institute, a conservative think tank in Seattle that is the leading proponent for intelligent design, said it has compiled a list of more than 400 scientists, including 70 biologists, who are skeptical about evolution.

"The fact is that a significant number of scientists are extremely skeptical that Darwinian evolution can explain the origins of life," said John West, associate director of the organization's Center for Science and Culture.

It's not that I don't 'like it so deny it.' It's that it's completely invalid.

This may help you:

Description of Guilt By Association
Guilt by Association is a fallacy in which a person rejects a claim simply because it is pointed out that people she dislikes accept the claim. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

It is pointed out that people person A does not like accept claim P.
Therefore P is false

It is clear that sort of "reasoning" is fallacious. For example the following is obviously a case of poor "reasoning": "You think that 1+1=2. But, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, Joseph Stalin, and Ted Bundy all believed that 1+1=2. So, you shouldn't believe it."
The fallacy draws its power from the fact that people do not like to be associated with people they dislike. Hence, if it is shown that a person shares a belief with people he dislikes he might be influenced into rejecting that belief. In such cases the person will be rejecting the claim based on how he thinks or feels about the people who hold it and because he does not want to be associated with such people.
Of course, the fact that someone does not want to be associated with people she dislikes does not justify the rejection of any claim. For example, most wicked and terrible people accept that the earth revolves around the sun and that lead is heavier than helium. No sane person would reject these claims simply because this would put them in the company of people they dislike (or even hate).

I stand by my post that it is you evolutionary zealots who are the ignorant and arrogant.

Which are you because they all disagree.

Religious Body Number of Adherents
Catholic Church** 1,100,000,000
Sunni Islam* 1,000,000,000
Eastern Orthodox Church* 225,000,000
Jinja Honcho* 83,000,000
Anglican Communion* 76,000,000
Assemblies of God* 50,000,000
Ethiopian Orthodox Church 35,000,000
Evangelische Kirche in Deutschland (EKD)* 27,400,000
Sikhism 23,000,000
Juche (North Korea) 19,000,000
Southern Baptist Convention* 16,000,000
Jehovah's Witnesses** 15,597,746
Seventh-day Adventist Church 12,894,005
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 12,275,822
United Methodist Church* 11,708,887
Soka Gakkai 11,000,000
New Apostolic Church 10,260,000
Ahmadiyya * 10,000,000
Veerashaivas (Lingayats) 10,000,000
Coptic Orthodox 10,000,000
Sathya Sai Baba 10,000,000
Church of Uganda 8,000,000
Choge Buddhism 8,000,000
Church of Sweden 7,143,292
Church of God in Christ 6,500,000
Kimbanguist Church 6,500,000
Bahai World Faith 6,000,000
Universal Church of the Kingdom of God
(Igreja Universal do Reino de Deus) 6,000,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America 5,500,000
China Christian Council 5,000,000
Rissho Koseikai 5,000,000
Swaminarayanism 5,000,000
Aglipayan Church 4,500,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland 4,400,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Denmark 4,350,000
Iglesia ni Cristo (mostly in the Philippines) 4,000,000
Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee) 4,000,000
Kale Heywet (SIM, Ethiopia) 4,000,000
Church of Norway (Evangelical Lutheran) 3,850,000
Church of South India 3,800,000
Armenian Apostolic Church 3,500,000
Christian Congregation (Brazil) 3,120,000
National Baptist Convention of America 3,106,000
"God is Love" Pentecostal Church (Igreja Pentecostal "Deus e Amo") 3,000,000
Zion Christian Church (South Africa) 3,000,000
Cao Dai 3,000,000
Ch'ondogyo 3,000,000
Church of the Lord Aladura 3,000,000
Reiyukai 3,000,000
United Church of Canada 3,000,000
International Church of the Foursquare Gospel 2,863,232
Balinese Hinduism 2,800,000
Christian and Missionary Alliance 2,644,296
Netherlands Reformed Church (NHK) 2,600,000
Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod 2,582,440
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) 2,560,201
Protestant Christian Batak Church
(Huria Kristen Batak Protestan -- HKBP, Indonesia) 2,500,000
Evangelical Churches of West Africa 2,500,000
Progressive National Baptist Convention 2,500,000
Tenrikyo 2,350,000
United Pentecostal Church International 2,300,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Tanzania 2,200,000
Presbyterian Church of Korea (Haptong) 2,094,338
Africa Inland Church (Kenya) 2,000,000
Brazil for Christ 2,000,000
Churches of Christ 2,000,000
Church of Jesus Christ in Madagascar 2,000,000
Syrian Orthodox Church ("Jacobite") 2,000,000
Radhasoami 2,000,000
United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism 2,000,000
True (Old Calendar) Orthodox Church of Greece 2,000,000
Reformed Church in Hungary 2,000,000
American Muslim Society 2,000,000
Presbyterian Church of Korea (Tonghap) 1,660,248
Council of Baptist Churches of NE India 1,630,000
Ethiopian Evangelical Church Mekane Yesus 1,625,994
Baptist Bible Fellowship International 1,600,000
Salvation Army 1,500,000
Myanmar Baptist Convention 1,500,000
Malagasy Lutheran Church (Madagascar) 1,500,000
American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A. 1,455,855
Brazilian Baptist Convention 1,440,000
Dutch Reformed Church (NGK; South Africa) 1,403,180
Alawi 1,400,000
Council of Evangelical Methodist Churches
of Latin America and the Caribbean 1,400,000
Uniting Church in Australia 1,386,000
United Church of Christ 1,377,320
Christ Apostolic Church (Nigeria) 1,300,000
Union of American Hebrew Congregations (Reform) 1,300,000
Pentecostal Church of Indonesia 1,280,000
African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church 1,252,369
Church of Central Africa, Presbyterian (CCAP; Malawi) 1,250,000
Nigerian Baptist Convention 1,250,000
Church of the Nazarene 1,216,657
African Methodist Episcopal Church 1,200,000
Divine Light Mission 1,200,000
Church of God Miss. Intl. (Nigeria) 1,200,000
British Methodist Church 1,200,000
Church of North India 1,125,000
Christian Churches and Churches of Christ 1,070,000
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) 1,043,943
United Orthodox Jewish Congregation of America 1,043,943
Lott Carey Baptist Foreign Mission Convention, USA 1,050,000
Evangelical Church of the Lutheran Confession in Brazil 1,000,000
ISKCON 1,000,000
Syrian Orthodox Church of Malabar (Mar Thoma) 1,000,000
National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A. 1,000,000
Pentecostal Assemblies of the World 1,000,000
PL Kyodan 1,000,000
Sekai Kyuseikyo 1,000,000
Church of Christ in Nigeria 1,000,000
Unity Church 1,000,000
Igreja Evangelica Pentecostal (Brazil) 1,000,000
Church of Scotland 1,000,000
Sukyo Mahikari 1,000,000

A lot of good information appears in these threads.

I agree, which is one of the reason I usually read these threads when I come across them. I rarely comment on the threads, as they tend to be brutal.

You may be very closed minded to the subject (I was too when I was a fundie) but most people are pretty open minded.

I never got any "fundie" indoctrination when I was young, but instead I was indoctrinated with TOE, as well as the beginning of life business that supposedly isn't taught as having anything to do with it. In my youth I was close minded, blinded by science & other junk.

Secularization of education forces compartmentalization of thought, no less than any fundamental religion. The ability to jump from one compartment to the other is not open minded. Rip down all of the barriers to allow thought to flow freely between them & we can talk.

There may have been a few tens of thousands

Where did you get this number? Make it up? I thought you based everything on reality. Reality is we have texts that are thousands of years old that tell us approximatly how many there were

Those words have been through too many retellings to have any resemblance to their originals.

Really? Let's see. They were written, then translated to English. Far too many steps to have a grain of truth

And, before you get into a high dudgeon about this lack of acceptance at face value of what claims to be the Word of God (a circular argument if I ever heard one)

I certainly realize that. A person must first believe the Bible to be an accurate historical narrative before you can try pulling that. Many people don't seem to realize that.

What, may I ask, is your diffinition of reality? Things that make perfect sense to your scientific mind? In other words, the idea of a one and a half or so mile wide stretch of the sea being parted would not be acceptable under any circumstances because it does not confrom to your scientific reality?

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