Last word on Terri Schiavo...

February 26. 2005 | Hildy

[Hildy]

For all of those who have called me every imaginable name because I dare to suggest that there are some things worse than death...I don't wish you on you anything that poor woman goes through on a minute by minute basis. Because you know so much, and are so sure that you are right because you are all so freakin self-righteous...I'm leaving FreeRepublic because I no longer want to be a part of something that has become so twisted. Hannity is right, this website has been hijacked. It was a good run...but we'll find another place. Save your jabs, I won't be reading them. To those who have privately agreed with me, and there are many, thank you. I'm just worn out and frankly, don't even care what most here think.

[EternalVigilance]

May God's will be done

Ezekiel 34

Irresponsible Shepherds

God the True Shepherd

1 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2"Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, "Thus says the Lord GOD to the shepherds: "Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. 4The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them. 5So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; and they became food for all the beasts of the field when they were scattered. 6My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and on every high hill; yes, My flock was scattered over the whole face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them."

7"Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD: 8"As I live," says the Lord GOD, "surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became food for every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, nor did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock"-- 9therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the LORD! 10Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them."

God, the True Shepherd

11"For thus says the Lord GOD: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land; I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, in the valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountains of Israel. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord GOD. 16"I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."

17"And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I shall judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and goats. 18Is it too little for you to have eaten up the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the residue of your pasture--and to have drunk of the clear waters, that you must foul the residue with your feet? 19And as for My flock, they eat what you have trampled with your feet, and they drink what you have fouled with your feet."

20"Therefore thus says the Lord GOD to them: "Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, 22therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them--My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24And I, the LORD, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the LORD, have spoken.

[antceecee]

I remember a time (not that long ago) when nurses who performed so called 'mercy killings' were prosecuted for murder. Now we hear discussion on these forums of doing the same and viewing it as morally acceptable.

"*if is ordered to be done*, it should be done humanely."

This is the point: how can ANYONE, court or person ORDER the death of an innocent human being? There is no clear cut (read: written) directive from Terri in this case. This case is polarizing precisely because it advances the cause of euthanasia as an end of life alternative. There are those of us who view this as immoral.
Hildy wants to have "the last word on Terri Schiavo". Her post reminds me of the little boys who don't like the way the game is played so they want to take their football and go home. If she does not want to respond to a poster who is rude, then ignore them. Intelligent people can have a good discussion of this issue without name calling and insulting someone they disagree with.
This is another trend I am noticing on FR. If you don't like the posters then call them names 'cultists, wacky, far-right, crazy fundamendalist Christians" whatever sounds disparaging enough to 'brand' them, thus you don't have to take them seriously. Good job. This is exactly what the Democratic Party did in the last election. It seems that some here (on both sides) have learned this tactic well.
All in all I think there are a lot of Terri supporters who do a service to the cause of protecting her from what they feel is an injustice being done... and they do it properly on FR.

[Former Military Chick]

EternalVigilance:
I wonder if you might take a moment to answer a question?

Aside from this case, and you do have strong feelings as you should, if today a similar news item would appear in the news, how would you advise (comment on this thread) of what a family is to do?

Terri deserves the attention she is given but what can we do in the future so as not to go down this road again? What are we learning from Terri?

[MarMema]

I'm a medical technologist. I help physicians with diagnostic
decisions. Thanks for asking.

[ORECON]

I will pray for both Terri and you. Only God Can replace a missing brain and only God can open a closed mind. Short of miracles, there is no hope.

[EternalVigilance]

The lesson we need to draw from Terri is the same lesson as always: the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.

Evil is always striving to make inroads, and if believers aren't the salt and the light, decay and darkness will prevail.

The reason America has been so great for so long is that in every generation there has been a small but powerful minority, which turned into a majority in the course of the battle, who were willing to stand up for what is right and good no matter the consequences.

God help us, our posterity and the world if it is our generation that drops that baton...

[EternalVigilance]

An open mind is like an open belfry...soon inhabited...

[MarMema]

Regarding your casual and inaccurate use of the word "braindead", statistics alone would make it extremely unlikely. Additionally most still use the standard Harvard definition, for which Terri does not meet the criteria because she breathes on her own.

"brain death" survival
Dr. D. Alan Shewmon, M.D. compiled a list of 175 patients who survived longer than 1 week after a diagnosis of "brain death". According to his study,the survival statistics of these patients were:
-80 patients survived 2+ weeks
-44 patients survived 4+ weeks
-20 patients survived 2+ months
-6 patients survived 6+ months
-1 patient survived 14+ years and is still living

Withdrawal of treatment may be ordered after 4 weeks and cardiac arrest may follow. "Brain death" is almost always a self-fulfilling prophesy of death through organ harvesting or discontinuation of needed life support."

link

[antceecee]

I just had to respond to your post to Eternal Vigilance:
"I will pray for both Terri and you. Only God Can replace a missing brain and only God can open a closed mind. Short of miracles, there is no hope."
..and to your tagline:
"(If you have a closed mind, you may as well be gone.)"

1. Terri's brain is not missing.
2. It seems that the reference to a 'closed mind' could cut both ways.
3. RE: your tagline: Just because you view someone as having a closed mind does not mean they should be dead. ..."you may as well be gone." You do mean dead, don't you? .. or is there something more that I am missing in this statement?

[MarMema]

The Uniform Determination of Death Act was adopted as part of the President's Commission report in 1981. This document stated that "an individual who has sustained either (1) irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions, or (2) irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem, is dead. A determination of death must be made in accordance with accepted medical standards."

"An individual with irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem, is dead if the following are true:

* Cessation of all brain function is recognized.

* Cerebral functions are absent (ie, unresponsiveness).

* The following brainstem functions are absent:
o Pupillary light reflex
o Corneal reflex
o Oculocephalic/oculovestibular reflex
o Oropharyngeal reflex
o Respiratory (apnea using an accepted apnea testing procedure)

[ORECON]

May God's will be done.

I quess we can't even agree on that simple prayer.

[wildandcrazyrussian]

Deo volente: Can't we get the administators to "lock" threads instead of pulling them when the trolls come out? That way one could at least have the info at hand and incorporate into future threads of losing the good comments.

Eternal Vigilance: great to see you here on the Schiavo case!

[pc93]

This thread was made by a troll.

[Former Military Chick]

Clarification needed. Are folks saying that Hildy is a troll. Perhaps I need a refresher course on trolls but I thought that was meant for folks subscribing only to promote an agenda.

How does Hildy fit in that description? She has been on Free Republic just about as long as I have, 1998.

[ORECON]

May God's will be done.

I will pray for you too.

[pc93]

I'm referring to a troller... a troller is a troll from standard internet parlance. I'm not talking about your definition of what a Troll is on Freep.

[ORECON]

So anyone that doesn't agree with you is a troll?

[Deo volente]

Fine, Hildy's not a troll.

But she's pro-euthanasia, big time.

And she has a little group of groupies who follow her around like a bunch of little ducklings following their mother.

(I believe the phenomenon is called "imprinting")

If people want to argue with her, great.

But let's not get drawn into name calling, and other insults.
Wouldn't help Terri in the least for us to get banned from FR, which is what I suspect is their ultimate goal.

[Deo volente]

post #557 is a nice little bit of bait.

My advice: Don't bite.

[andysandmikesmom]

I find you posting #550 to be very interesting, ,and I think that all people should read it, and try to understand what true 'brain death' really is...it is evident from the criteria provided, that Terri Shiavo is not at all 'brain dead'...she certainly is brain damaged, which is a completely different thing...

My older son was declared 'brain dead' after a massive cerebral hemorrhage happened, due to his leukemia...but even after the hemorrhage, the docs told us, that he still had minimal brain function, and they put him on a respirator, and also hydrated him...they inform us, however, that due to the massive hemorrhage, and what the ensuing swelling of the brain would bring, that eventually he would become brain dead...

48 hours later, they performed a myriad of tests,...did he respond to pain?(no he did not).., could he breath if taken off the respirator?(no he could not)...did his brain show any activity?(no, it did not)....was his blood circulating to his brain, thus providing oxygen to the brain?(no it was not)...and I dont know what other tests they performed, before they actually declared him 'brain dead'...

Also they were in no great hurry to disconnect him from the respirator...they realized that having him on the respirator gave a semblance of life, and we needed that for just a short time longer...after a few hours, with a priest and my husband present(I just could not watch), the doctors disconnected my son....he was indeed gone...

Now, I think there really seems to be some disconnect here, between the terms, 'brain dead' and 'brain damaged'...My son, even while on the respirator, could not breath on his own, he could not move, he could not open his eyes, he could not speak, he had no response to deep pain, and all medical tests done, showed that he was 'brain dead', and thus dead...

Brain damaged people run a wide spectrum...from slight brain damage, to very serious severe brain damage...but even someone with serious severe brain damage, is still alive and deserving of a chance at further life...which is why I believe that Terri Shiavo should be allowed to take food and water through her feeding tube...she is a living, breathing woman, still alive, still deserving of a chance at life...

Now, I know there are many folks who actually dont believe that true 'brain dead' people are really dead..heck, I ran into a number of them after my son died, who actually accused me of killing my son....nasty, hurtful people who would not accept the reality of 'brain death'...they had their agendas, and if it made them feel good to badger me in my sorrow, then they are the ones who are to be pitied...

I just think we should be sure that we understand the difference, between 'brain death', and 'brain damaged'...