Prime Miniser Ariel Sharon and U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice ahead of their talks in Jerusalem on Sunday.
(AP)
Condoleezza Rice laying a wreath at the Yad Vashem Holocaust museum in Jerusalem on Sunday.
(Reuters)
Posted on 02/06/2005 12:53:43 PM PST by anotherview
Last Update: 06/02/2005 20:55
Rice urges Israel to avoid unilateral steps on J'lem
By Aluf Benn, Haaretz Correspondent Haaretz Staff and Agencies
Prime Miniser Ariel Sharon and U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice ahead of their talks in Jerusalem on Sunday.
Condoleezza Rice laying a wreath at the Yad Vashem Holocaust museum in Jerusalem on Sunday.
(AP)
(Reuters)
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Sunday met with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom and President Moshe Katsav, and urged them to maintain the status quo over Jerusalem, and avoid taking any unilateral steps on the disputed capital which could harm Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas. Israeli sources said Rice was referring to the government's decision from last summer to apply the absentee property law to tens of thousands of dunams (acres) of Palestinian property in East Jerusalem. Attorney General Menachem Mazuz last week instructed Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to order an immediate halt to the application of the law. The sources said Rice may also have been referring to the decision to build the separation fence in Jerusalem, and to expand Jewish neighborhoods in the city.
Rice said Sunday that the disengagement plan is an historic opportunity, and that the future security of Palestinians and Israelis will be ensured only by two states exisiting side by side.
In an interview with TV Channel 2 Rice emphasized the importance of direct contact between Israeli and Palestinian negotiators, and minimum involvement of mediators such as the U.S.
When asked about the right of return for Palestinian refugees, the secretary of state said that while new demographic realities since 1967 must be taken into account, the parties must reach an agreement accommodating to the needs of them both.
Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom, who was the first Israeli official to meet with Rice on Sunday, told the secretary of state, "Israel will not relinquish its sovereignty over Jerusalem. The issue of Jerusalem will be left to the final status agreement, but we have to intention to harm the Palestinians."
Rice also said that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan must be implemented without delay, and carried out according to its timetable. She told Shalom that Abu Mazen [Abbas] was elected through democratic elections and he needs as much help as possible to give a firm basis to his leadership. Shalom responded that "the pain of the settlers [to be evacuated under the plan] must be understood and empathy must be shown. These people do not know where they will live or where they will work.
Rice arrived in Israel in an optimistic mood Sunday afternoon, as she prepared for talks with Israeli and Palestinian officials two days before the first official Middle East summit since the death of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat last November.
Her first stop was a visit to the Yad Vashem Holocaust museum in Jerusalem, where she laid a wreath inside the Hall of Remembrance.
She then met with Shalom, followed by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. She is also due to meet President Moshe Katsav later Sunday.
Ahead of their meeting, Sharon said he was sure his talks with Rice would "contribute to the friendly relations between the two countries." Sharon said he also expected her visit to contribute to the peace process, "which we want to very much want to push forward in the region."
In response, Rice said U.S.-Israel relations were solid "because we share not just interests but values." She said her goal was to "try to advance the cause of peace and to overcome the scourge of terrorism."
Before meeting Shalom, Rice said, "we will ask of our partners and our friends in Israel that Israel continues to make the hard decisions that must be taken in order to promote peace and... the emergence of a democratic Palestinian state.
"This is a time of optimism because fundamental changes are underway in the Middle East as a whole," she added.
After their meeting, Shalom told Channel 2 television that he gave Rice Israel's demands of the Palestinians.
"If the Palestinians do not to everything to halt the smuggling of weapons through tunnels, close the tunnels, close the weapons workshops, gather up illegal weapons - we would simply be giving the violent groups time to regroup and then carry out terror attacks that could collapse the whole process," he said.
On Monday, Rice will travel to the West Bank city of Ramallah for talks with Abbas and Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia.
Tuesday's summit, hosted and initiated by Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in the resort town of Sharm el-Sheikh, will be attended by Sharon, Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas and Jordan's King Abdullah.
Although the U.S. has said that the secretary of state will not attend the talks, her agenda is likely to include in part a review of the plans for the summit.
Rice has signaled she prefers to see Sharon and Abbas make progress as free of foreign mediation as possible.
"I hope we would all get into a mind-set that says if the parties are able to continue to move on their own, that's the very best outcome," Rice told reporters en route to Ankara, the stop before Israel.
Preparations for the Egypt summit are being finalized, but not before her arrival.
Israeli officials assessed that the secretary of state would commend both sides on their recent efforts.
Paul Patin, a spokesman of the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv, said Rice would bring up a wide range of issues, including Israel's commitment under the internationally backed road map peace plan to dismantle dozens of unauthorized West Bank settlement outposts and Israeli gestures to the Palestinians, such as the removal of Israeli checkpoints that disrupt Palestinian travel - gestures that would bolster confidence in the new Palestinian leadership.
"Outposts are something that they promised to remove years ago and we expect them to abide by their commitments," Patin said.
She is also expected to call on the Palestinians to do more to restore security and bring an end to violence.
For their part, the Americans are trying to play down Rice's absence from the Egyptian summit.
"It is not necessary to participate at the highest level in every gathering in order to be a major player and part of the solution," a State Department spokesman explained Saturday.
In Israel, police raised their level of operations in various regions around the country Sunday, in anticipation of Rice's arrival and the run-up to Tuesday's summit.
Police decided to bolster forces around the country and checkpoints were set up between the seam line and various Israeli cities. Police will conduct both regular and undercover patrols.
Sharon may invite Mubarak Israeli officials, meanwhile, said Sunday that Sharon may invite his Egyptian counterpart to visit Israel during Tuesday's summit, as relations between the former enemies continue to flourish.
The invitations "is quite likely," said an unnamed official. "We would very much like him to come."
In recent months relations have improved as Egypt took a larger role in mediating between Israel and the Palestinians. The last visit by an Egyptian leader to Israel was by Mubarak in 1995, when he came to the funeral of assassinated prime minister Yitzhak Rabin.
Chosen means those who choose to answer. That is what I believe. And who are you to say otherwise? Some fanatical extremist? Give me a break!
You told me that you did not care if you offended me. I ask you in return to tell me why I should care what you think. You have yet to respond. That is hypocricy in my boodk - the opposite of spirituality. Are you a fraud?
Don't be so arrogant as to think that Jews have a monopoly on God. God loves all people equally. Is that a blow to your ego? Get used to it.
Well that might just happen. So we will see how Israel responds if and when it comes up. And it very well might.
Moshiach's ultimate loyalty will be to God, not to one tribal group or sect.
Also, why can't the Third Temple/House for All Nations be built within the boundaries of a Messianic Democratic Republican Nation State ?
I wonder if you are aware of a certain brilliant figure from the past, namely the Jewish orthodox rationalist, Mar Samuel, of the Academy of Sara, Babylon, from about the year 220 ace. He made a famous decision, which by the way most affected the Jews, and was expressed in the phrase, Dina d'malchuthah dina—"The law of the land is the law for us." This means that it was the duty of all people including the Jews to obey the laws of the countries in which we live.
Jeremiah's famous quote, which should be etched into every adult's consciousness, was "Seek the peace of the country whither ye are exiled and pray to the Lord-for its welfare." The ultimate result of Samuel's dictum was that the better the Jew, the better the patriot.
Jeremiah out trumps Jabotinsky in the Wisdom Card Game by a mile.
I am not familiar with the history of which you speak - but I believe that it is right and good to abide by the laws in the land in which you live - unless the laws are evil.
It is my view that a Palestinian state living in peace side by side with Israel would be a good thing - a good thing for all the world.
A win-win scenario. As Lou Reed sang in Perfect Day... "You're going to reap just what you sow."
Seems the Arabs have not yet begun to comply and Isreael is on phase 27... I have a fair trade, Washington give up the west coast to Russia, and the east coast to China and Israel gives up Gaza to the Arabs.
That will bring peace, right?
I have another compromise, Israel not annex the abandoned land, but bulldoze all the Arab construction on land in Jerusalem that does not have building permits. That will take about 4 years as there are thousands of houses built on land here they do not own. Some places are even built on the blacktop of the streets!
Condi is just demonstrating that America is clueless as to what is going on in Israel, and in a very poor position to be dictating solutions to problems they do not understand.
She is also showing that Bush is clueless as to the Bible and its warnings about Nations that burden themselves with Jerusalem. God promises destruction on the Nations that do so, and God always delivers what he promises.
Boy, you are defensive.
I wonder why since you repeatedly told everyone on the thread who dared to question the current policy that we don’t belong here. You have offered nothing here except intimidation, names and a call for blind unthinking loyalty that would do Kim Jung Il credit.
I asked you a simple question. Since the US gives tremendous foreign aid to Europe why don’t we give them orders on how to conduct their affairs the way you believe the US should do to Israel because we give Israel much smaller sums. I need not detail the garbage we have put up with from France whose survival or territorial integrity was never at stake. After countless posts reiterating your mantra “I support the President” you still have not addressed this basic issue which you raised by saying that Israel is obligated to do as the US says because they take US aid.
I am not interested in your name calling or in your opinions of me or in your opinion of where I belong. Call me anything you like. I’ll let my words speak for me. Stick to the discussion if you have anything at all germane to say.
Finally I believe you have outed your real agenda here by your remarks about “poor Palestinian children.” You are a Palestinian sympathizer against Israel. That’s fine. Or not really. But don’t wrap yourself in the American flag when your agenda is Palestinian rights, and you are referring to the Israelis and their supporters as “the most ungodly and unspiritual people on the planet.”
Here is the dialogue:
IAF Thunderpilot:
"We will have peace with the Arabs when they lover their children more than they hate us". -Former Israeli PM, Golda Meir, after the Yom Kippur war of 1973.
Sunsong:
I have heard this quote for years - and I like it. It contains common sense and wisdom - but little arrogant one - what will you do when the Palestinians do begin to love their children? Do you have the humility to see that change is happening or are you blinded by your arrogance?
No children deserve to live the way that Palestinian children do. Only the most unGodly and unspiritual people on the planet could wish that on them.
Do you even know how the Palestinian children live? Are many starving? Do they go to school? Many children around the globe have the same or much lower standard of living. How about the ones starving to death? Where’s your overstated compassion for them?
As Alouette addressed, the implication of your statement is that the Israelis have brought them to this impasse and are heartless to not make peace to ameliorate their condition. Total bull. What will you do oh big arrogant one when the Palestinian use their children once again as pawns. The corrupt Palestinian leadership and the Arab world who manipulated their plight brought them to their current state. None of that will change by dividing Jerusalem or giving some territory to people who have not yet come to terms with the fact that they are not getting it all and that Israel as a Jewish State is here to stay, and who use terrorist means to sabotage any reasonable solutions.
Oh big arrogant one you are exposed.
That you have a little clique here does not mean anything. What are there about 10 people? Come on - wake up. That is nothing compared to millions of Americans. A majority of Americans support President Bush and his efforts to bring peace to the ME. It is you and your little clique here that is out of the mainstream.
Have you heard of Jung and the shadow? You might consider that when you talk about being closed-minded. There is every reason to be optimistic and to support President Bush and Secretary Rice - but you are apparently closed to it.
What you and your little clique thinks, however, does not matter much. Change has already come - and more is on the way.
Here is more on Dr. Rice's trip at Yad Yashem Holocaust Memorial
Your interpretation of Jewish prophecy is lacking and is very incomplete. If you knew what was to unfold over the next few months you would be Moshiach, and I certainly don't think you are indeed him.
And what if Moshiach reveals a spiritual world to all mankind that allows us to physically see G-d's essence in all living things? A bit like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did.
She is also showing that Bush is clueless as to the Bible and its warnings about Nations that burden themselves with Jerusalem. God promises destruction on the Nations that do so, and God always delivers what he promises.
Oh boy. More Messianic predictions. More arrogance. Whatever. Time will tell. I'm putting my money on President Bush and Condi Rice. You believe whatever you want to.
Blessings on you my friend, while you tend to be very liberal and peace-nic in my point of view, but not unreasoningly so, it is humorous to see you butt heads with the more extreem leftists. You tend to think, that makes you a target. Only puppets that jerk as they pull the strings are their friends. Form over substance, retoric over reason is the substitute for reality for the socialist suicideniks.
Thank you. I forgot to point out that all this NATO money goes unnoticed as foreign aid because it is part of the actual defense budget. While this made perfect sense in the cold war with the Soviet threat, it is now for many years an anachronism which fosters an unhealthy dependency.
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