Prime Miniser Ariel Sharon and U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice ahead of their talks in Jerusalem on Sunday.
(AP)
Condoleezza Rice laying a wreath at the Yad Vashem Holocaust museum in Jerusalem on Sunday.
(Reuters)
Posted on 02/06/2005 12:53:43 PM PST by anotherview
Last Update: 06/02/2005 20:55
Rice urges Israel to avoid unilateral steps on J'lem
By Aluf Benn, Haaretz Correspondent Haaretz Staff and Agencies
Prime Miniser Ariel Sharon and U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice ahead of their talks in Jerusalem on Sunday.
Condoleezza Rice laying a wreath at the Yad Vashem Holocaust museum in Jerusalem on Sunday.
(AP)
(Reuters)
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Sunday met with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom and President Moshe Katsav, and urged them to maintain the status quo over Jerusalem, and avoid taking any unilateral steps on the disputed capital which could harm Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas. Israeli sources said Rice was referring to the government's decision from last summer to apply the absentee property law to tens of thousands of dunams (acres) of Palestinian property in East Jerusalem. Attorney General Menachem Mazuz last week instructed Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to order an immediate halt to the application of the law. The sources said Rice may also have been referring to the decision to build the separation fence in Jerusalem, and to expand Jewish neighborhoods in the city.
Rice said Sunday that the disengagement plan is an historic opportunity, and that the future security of Palestinians and Israelis will be ensured only by two states exisiting side by side.
In an interview with TV Channel 2 Rice emphasized the importance of direct contact between Israeli and Palestinian negotiators, and minimum involvement of mediators such as the U.S.
When asked about the right of return for Palestinian refugees, the secretary of state said that while new demographic realities since 1967 must be taken into account, the parties must reach an agreement accommodating to the needs of them both.
Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom, who was the first Israeli official to meet with Rice on Sunday, told the secretary of state, "Israel will not relinquish its sovereignty over Jerusalem. The issue of Jerusalem will be left to the final status agreement, but we have to intention to harm the Palestinians."
Rice also said that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan must be implemented without delay, and carried out according to its timetable. She told Shalom that Abu Mazen [Abbas] was elected through democratic elections and he needs as much help as possible to give a firm basis to his leadership. Shalom responded that "the pain of the settlers [to be evacuated under the plan] must be understood and empathy must be shown. These people do not know where they will live or where they will work.
Rice arrived in Israel in an optimistic mood Sunday afternoon, as she prepared for talks with Israeli and Palestinian officials two days before the first official Middle East summit since the death of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat last November.
Her first stop was a visit to the Yad Vashem Holocaust museum in Jerusalem, where she laid a wreath inside the Hall of Remembrance.
She then met with Shalom, followed by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. She is also due to meet President Moshe Katsav later Sunday.
Ahead of their meeting, Sharon said he was sure his talks with Rice would "contribute to the friendly relations between the two countries." Sharon said he also expected her visit to contribute to the peace process, "which we want to very much want to push forward in the region."
In response, Rice said U.S.-Israel relations were solid "because we share not just interests but values." She said her goal was to "try to advance the cause of peace and to overcome the scourge of terrorism."
Before meeting Shalom, Rice said, "we will ask of our partners and our friends in Israel that Israel continues to make the hard decisions that must be taken in order to promote peace and... the emergence of a democratic Palestinian state.
"This is a time of optimism because fundamental changes are underway in the Middle East as a whole," she added.
After their meeting, Shalom told Channel 2 television that he gave Rice Israel's demands of the Palestinians.
"If the Palestinians do not to everything to halt the smuggling of weapons through tunnels, close the tunnels, close the weapons workshops, gather up illegal weapons - we would simply be giving the violent groups time to regroup and then carry out terror attacks that could collapse the whole process," he said.
On Monday, Rice will travel to the West Bank city of Ramallah for talks with Abbas and Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia.
Tuesday's summit, hosted and initiated by Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in the resort town of Sharm el-Sheikh, will be attended by Sharon, Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas and Jordan's King Abdullah.
Although the U.S. has said that the secretary of state will not attend the talks, her agenda is likely to include in part a review of the plans for the summit.
Rice has signaled she prefers to see Sharon and Abbas make progress as free of foreign mediation as possible.
"I hope we would all get into a mind-set that says if the parties are able to continue to move on their own, that's the very best outcome," Rice told reporters en route to Ankara, the stop before Israel.
Preparations for the Egypt summit are being finalized, but not before her arrival.
Israeli officials assessed that the secretary of state would commend both sides on their recent efforts.
Paul Patin, a spokesman of the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv, said Rice would bring up a wide range of issues, including Israel's commitment under the internationally backed road map peace plan to dismantle dozens of unauthorized West Bank settlement outposts and Israeli gestures to the Palestinians, such as the removal of Israeli checkpoints that disrupt Palestinian travel - gestures that would bolster confidence in the new Palestinian leadership.
"Outposts are something that they promised to remove years ago and we expect them to abide by their commitments," Patin said.
She is also expected to call on the Palestinians to do more to restore security and bring an end to violence.
For their part, the Americans are trying to play down Rice's absence from the Egyptian summit.
"It is not necessary to participate at the highest level in every gathering in order to be a major player and part of the solution," a State Department spokesman explained Saturday.
In Israel, police raised their level of operations in various regions around the country Sunday, in anticipation of Rice's arrival and the run-up to Tuesday's summit.
Police decided to bolster forces around the country and checkpoints were set up between the seam line and various Israeli cities. Police will conduct both regular and undercover patrols.
Sharon may invite Mubarak Israeli officials, meanwhile, said Sunday that Sharon may invite his Egyptian counterpart to visit Israel during Tuesday's summit, as relations between the former enemies continue to flourish.
The invitations "is quite likely," said an unnamed official. "We would very much like him to come."
In recent months relations have improved as Egypt took a larger role in mediating between Israel and the Palestinians. The last visit by an Egyptian leader to Israel was by Mubarak in 1995, when he came to the funeral of assassinated prime minister Yitzhak Rabin.
Who has been the best friend tiny Israel has had? Why do you want to stick your finger in the eye of your best friend? I don't get it.
As long as the hamas thugs don't renounce their Charter, I wouldn't give credence to any word uttered by any of them thugs
Because you are Jewish, you must obviously be aware of the Twelfth Article of Faith.
A question for you...
Do you think the current State of Israel is an incomplete pre-cursor to the final Messianic State in the Holy Land ?
We are all God's children !
Friendship should be based on mutual regard of each as equals.
It is only my opinion but I would not answer the question as stated. The better question is: Have the Jewish people fulfilled all the requirements for Moshiach to come?
I would answer that they have.
Why won't you answer the question directly ?
Hashem loves courage in people.
I thought I had. Oh well. Let's try this.
The messianic state of Israel is a monarchy. When Moshiach comes, he will be king. He will rebuild the temple. Do I think the modern state of is a monarchy? no. Do I think that the Jewish people have enough "ahavas Yisreol" to satisfy my own desires, no.
However- the question itself is a technical one. Have the Jewish people fulfilled all that is required for him to arrive? Technically, yes. That is at least is my opinion and the opinion of many others. It is however, only an opinion.
GOD NAMES NEXT "CHOSEN PEOPLE"; IT'S JEWS AGAIN
"Oh Shit," Say Jews
Jerusalem (SatireWire.com) Update - Jews, whose troubled, 10,000-year term as God's "chosen people" finally expired last night, woke up this morning to find that they had once again been hand-picked by the Almighty. Synagogues across the globe declared a day of mourning.
Asked if the descendants of Abraham shouldn't be pleased about being tapped for an unprecedented second term, Jerusalem Rabbi Ben Meyerson shrugged. "Of course, you are right, we should be thrilled," he said. "We should also enjoy a good swift kick in the head, but for some reason, we don't.
"Now don't ask such questions until you watch the news, or read history, or at least rent 'Fiddler on the Roof'."
Much of the world's re-blessed Jewish community shared that feeling. "It's always been considered a joke with us. You know, 'Please G-d, next time choose someone else,' ha ha," said New York City resident David Bashert.
"Ha. Ha ha," Bashert added.
http://www.satirewire.com/news/march02/chosen.shtml
No such thing would happen if Neuvo Aztlan gets going, beyond a critical point. It would, imo, be hamstrung by that movement's own hubris and by small acts of almost passive impedence by outsiders to it.
The only way I can see current Rice cooking as tasty is if is the old Dubya "give the all the rope they want and then some" trick. When I used to play poker, I always fed the impulsive player very well. That is I would feed him money -- lose stupid hands to him -- when he was dry. Why? You can get his money easy at any time, and use him to leverage off the strong players.
Unfortunately, that may translate here in this case into more deaths of innocents until the Palestinian PTB's make their inability to be trusted well-known and undeniable.
Only the most unGodly and unspiritual people on the planet could wish that on them.
And who is making them live like this? The Israelis?
Good grief - are you paranoid? Is it so hard for you to just show compassion for some children - regardless of their ethnic origin?
The lives of most Palestinians are hell. Would you agree? For the children it is a pain that no child should live through.
Who is to blame? What a boring and punitive question. Who is responsible? a better question. What can be done to change it? A far better question.
What can be done to change it, Alouette - or do you not care?
The only way I can see current Rice cooking as tasty is if is the old Dubya "give the all the rope they want and then some" trick.
Who is to say that he is not doing just that? President Bush is a savvy politican as well as a compassionate man. He can tell the difference between someone who is sincere and someone, like Arafat, who was always lying.
Optimism and hope are called for. Go ahead - indulge yourself :-)
I see an entire generation being raised in a death cult that is devoted to murder me and mine, and that makes me "paranoid?"
What can be done to change it? A far better question.
The Palestinians had obligations under Oslo and the Road Map to cease incitement and to educate their children to live in peace. Whose job is it to see that they meet their minimal obligations? We're just trying to avoid being killed here.
do you not care?
Your self-righteous crap makes me want to vomit.
Who the many? All over. Not just Arab. In the US, scattered all over. In Europe, almost chock full. In the muslim world -- they've convinced themselves. Mostly due to ignorance, yet a willful sort of ignorance.
Palestine is Israel. That's what the Romans named it. Palestine is and was a JEWISH State. Jews lived there the whole time. When Christianity came around the Jews lived alongside Christians. When mohammedism came around -- the Jews lived alongside muslims. For well over a thousand years. Many Jews speak Arabic. In the early wars after the UN Partition -- the rich muslims ran off. They left the poor behind. The Jews built schools, etc for them. Hiring Muslim teachers to teach them their own religion. The Jews begged the displaced-by-chice -- many of them --- to return.
As Israel became developed and modern Jordan and other arab states dumped their non-wanted muslims at Israel's border. A political wedge. A social hand-off. The heartless knew that the Jews would provide care and jobs for them, and the "kingdoms" then did not have to.
Per the legacy and instructions of the Hitler-advising, Jew slaughtering Grand Mufti and the Saudi wahabbis these displaced Arab untoucahables were inculcated in the vilest hatred of Jews for a few generations at every age. The Arab unwanted were bred into a camp of terrorists.
That is NOW what is called "Palestine", a reinvention of the name, a perversion of any historical context -- the Arab's own late arriving cast-off's . Raised by the heartless and the hatefilled to be junkyard dogs. But the label "palestine", the whole marketing. Simply amazing.
It works. It's got so many convinced.
While a Judenrein Palestine never existed the deluded and the hate-filled are now close to bringing it about.
If the US took a strong stand for Israel, and unabashedly insisted on its historical legitimacy, and made strong attempts to correct at every public opportunity the history-perverting re-labeling of Palestine, to insist that Jews must be able to live alongside Arabs in any Arab country, just as Muslims live in Israel alongside Jews, to make absolutely clear that Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel -- all of Jerusalem -- why that might bring many Muslims to the camp of peace. And give some of the deluded rest from their vile delusions. Europe? Seems impossibly lost already.
Yet the course now engaged. imo, will bring the Muslim world and Europe and those deluded in the US more against Israel because it mightily confirms that condition of essential illegitimacy that they hold.
It is for G-d, in the end to make His rescue of Israel and Jerusalem. Yet where will we be when that happens, with Him or against His desire?
I see an entire generation being raised in a death cult that is devoted to murder me and mine, and that makes me "paranoid?"
Perhaps you are so paranoid you still don't get it. I brought up the fact that Palestinian children are living in hell and your first response has to do with "Is Israel to blame?" - Sounds paranoid to me. Why couldn't you have simply expressed human compassion?
The Palestinians had obligations under Oslo and the Road Map to cease incitement and to educate their children to live in peace. Whose job is it to see that they meet their minimal obligations? We're just trying to avoid being killed here.
Still paranoid? I didn't ask you who was to blame or who is "obliged" here. Very revealing about you that that is where you go when talking about the suffering of these children! I asked you what can be done? I guess it has never occurred to you to even wonder about it? Who cares, right? - they're not Jews, right? Not your problem, right? Poor Jews , right? You've got enough to worry about, right? I think I know where you are coming from.
do you not care?
Your self-righteous crap makes me want to vomit.
Boy, you are defensive. Does human compassion make you want to vomit? Might want to look into that? But I still want to know - do you not care, Alouette? I really have to ask. How is it that you show no signs of ever even thinking about what could be done?
some people just can't take a compliment.
As far as I know our previous conversation concerned Poland in the past. Was I wrong?
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