Posted on 02/06/2005 6:45:18 AM PST by presidio9
In front of a cheering male audience, two young women wearing only bras and panties throw themselves into a mud-filled plastic kiddie pool and roll around in a wild wrestling match.
At one point a man in the audience raises a water bottle and douses the entwined pair.
At another, a "referee" moves in to break up the scantily clad grapplers.
A young blond lifts her T-shirt to expose her breasts. A brunette turns her back to the camera and exposes her thong undies.
These scenes, taken from 30 photos leaked to the Daily News, could have been snapped at an out-of-control frat party.
But this happened a world away from any American college.
The photos were taken in Camp Bucca, the military prison at Umm Qasr in the hot sands of southern Iraq near the Kuwaiti border.
The women are not coeds but military policewomen who had left their uniforms in a pile not far off.
The men are soldiers, too. Most of them wore T-shirts emblazoned with Army logos, but at least one was still wearing his uniform.
Some were sergeants, including the referee, and some allegedly were drunk.
The photos were taken last Oct. 30, in the same period when enemy detainees were being transferred to Camp Bucca from Abu Ghraib, the prison made notorious by photos of Americans torturing naked Iraqis.
The Camp Bucca pictures document no such abuses.
But they do show what experts called a disconcerting lapse in discipline at a time when Army brass was touting the camp as a model of reform.
"It was basically a goodbye party for those of us who were leaving and a welcome party for those coming in," the alleged referee, Sgt. Emil Ganim of the 160th Military Police Battalion, told The News. "It was a chance for people to blow off some steam before coming home after spending a year in a combat zone."
But one participant described less-benign behavior.
Two sergeants, she said, told her "they had been lending out their room for soldiers to have sex" - a serious infraction of military regulations.
One female soldier, a prison guard with the 160th Military Police Battalion, was photographed baring her breast and showing off her thong panties.
The picture apparently was taken in the room of one of those sergeants, an investigator reported.
The witness told investigators that two high-ranking noncommissioned officers, a first sergeant and a master sergeant, were present. She "noted that these NCOs had been drinking and were noticeably drunk," the report said.
Ganim said American civilians at the camp also participated in the party, and "if anybody had liquor, it was them."
Ganim has since returned to his civilian job as a deputy sheriff in Leon County, Fla.
"It appears that this event was allegedly coordinated by NCOs [sergeants] of the 160th," according to the initial investigation.
One of the soldiers told investigators the mud-wrestling match was underway when she arrived.
"She took off her uniform and joined the other female soldiers that were wrestling," the report says. But "once soldiers started asking for the females to expose themselves [she and two of the other wrestlers] put their uniforms back on and left the area."
But at least one woman was not deterred.
Deanna Allen, a 19-year-old prison guard with the 105th MP Battalion, smiled and lifted her T-shirt. Photos show a man standing close to her and leering at her breasts while another G.I. snaps pictures.
"From what I understand they dared her to do it," said Allen's grandmother, Luci Tomlin, in Black Mountain, N.C. "It was a loose moment. She is a strong-headed young lady. Sometimes she can be a little irrational."
Allen, who is still stationed in Iraq, did not respond to E-mailed questions from The News. She was demoted in rank to private first class.
"A sex party with alcohol that is prohibited would suggest a serious breakdown of military discipline," said Washington-based lawyer Eugene Fidell, a military-justice expert. "Just how it would be handled would be determined by the commander, who has very broad discretion in situations like this.
Fidell said punishments could range from "a good chewing out to loss of rank" for enlisted personnel and "a letter or career-killing transfer" for officers who allowed it to happen.
If this is all just good old fun,then WHY isn't explicit homosexual behaviors in the military okay? If it's consensual,who's being "hurt"? What's wrong with a little naked,homoerotic mud wrestling? What if the men in this group dropped trow for the females?
Just WHAT is "moral" about this bad behavior?
What primitive backwater were you living in in the 60s? The few single people I encountered in the 60s who didn't 'misbehave' by your standards, were either too shy or too unatractive to manage it.
So9
I'm not asking anyone to.
That is the real difference between us.
You want brave loyal soldiers punished for not following your moral code.
I read that some of the Shiite leaders in the south of Iraq are demanding women resume wearing the chadoor (bhurka).
I really can't see any moral difference on this issue between you and them.
You could have followed me around until you fell asleep and never caught me doing something like what we're discussing here, or worse! And I'm NOT the only one.I know many people of my age group,who didn't behave badly back then.
Forget imagery...this is what it is and it isn't a good thing on so many different levels,that you and your compatriots are ignoring.
There is still a double standard.Men view females,who act like this, in a different light,than they see women who don't.And YES,that makes a difference within a military unit especially in wartime and in a war zone!
Hunt is NO Hack...but nice try at defaming him with linking Hunt with that lunatic Hack.
Did you hear what he said? If not,you are talking about you have no knowledge of.Quite a silly thing to do;especially on FR.
There is a lot of difference between Sunday school and sex orgies.
I say we have rules now that the volunteers were aware of when they signed up. I don't see massive numbers of dropouts just because they enforce the rules that soldiers aren't allowed to have sex with each other. I give them more credit than that. The rules we should change are the ones about integrating men and women -- which is the real cause of this.
Shy? That depends on what you mean by shy. I've always been gregarious,but I certainly would NEVER have mud wrestled in my underwear (I wouldn't have mud wrestled at all!),nor flashed any part of me,that should remain covered.
I was far from being ugly;but I fear you'll have to take my word for that.Unless,that is,you'd like to ask people here who know what I looked like back then and now. LOL
But it's usually the UGLY females,who are the first to expose themselves,so I think you should remember that.
Then you're blind,besides being a molral relavist.
Well, it didn't take me long to figure you out. But given your hysteria on this thread, I must commend you on a very appropriate screen name.
Blind, maybe.
Moral Realtivist, no.
I don't need morals, I have ethics.
There are things I will do and won't do.
I don't much care what anyone else does, they can find out the hard way.
I was at University of Texas in the early sixties. 2/3 of the students were members of the Young Republicans, but I never met a virgin, or anyone who wouldn't occasionally get drunk, or who wouldn't do most anything when drunk enough.
I accept absolutely what you say about where you lived and how you looked and lived. I can only say that was not my experience or that of anyone I have ever known.
SO9
We've both been on FR for a long while and this is the first time you've noticed me? I find that VERY implausible,since we've been on many threads together and you haven"t had any complaints about my replies until just now.
"HYSTERIA"? That's too funny for words,pet. LOL
You have no idea what my nic stands for.Why don't you ask me,instead of trying to play games with it? :-)
"And you know this because..? So tell me where the phrase "world's oldest profession" comes from."
I didn't say prostitution never existed. At least in the past it was considered wrong, and so was acting like a prostitute. Nowadays women act like whores, and it is acceptable? Men act with unchivalry and that is acceptable?
I know about these things because I am family-oriented, and close with my grandparents and I even took interest in great grandparents when they were alive and I was a teenager. I asked them all about their lives, and society when they were younger. They let me know the difference between their society and today's society. That's how I know. When there was a rape, or murder, or even a pot bust, people were shocked to the core. Today it is normal.
That is not to say there wasn't teen pregnancy and such, but these were things that brought shame and were not touted as normal.
Because I knew many people,other than the ones I went to college with,my experience is somewhat broader.And while I knew a very few girls who were deflowered at college and a few who yes,did get drunk on a few occasions,that was NOT the norm,nor usual and all but two of those girls,who had premarital sexual relations,were engaged and shortly married to those they engaged in such acts with.
Morals and ethics aren't the same thing.
Do you have any female children of the same age as the females who flashed/mud wrestled in their underwear?
No, just one married son.
So9
Oh,I see.
Ethics are internally generated by contemplation.
Morals are someone elses ideas, you get them out of a book.
SO9
Are you out of your mind ? When the Army and the Marines are in someone's country in force as occupiers, we are most certainly NOT ambassadors.
"Leave diplomacy for the State Department, the military kills people and breaks things."
Centurion: When my brother was in Okinawa (actually I think he's back now from Saudi), there was a rape of a Japanese teen by an American soldier. The Japanese were so angry there were calls to expel the US military from their land. US soldiers comitt many robberies over there too, and now they close their shops, if near bases, before dark and they certainly keep a tighter reign on their daughters. Misbehaving in foreign nations is totally inappropriate, unless you fancy us as Mongol invaders.
The military are ambassadors for our country, like it or not. Foreigners judge us by how our troops behave while in their nations. If we say we are there to destroy their moral fiber, then acting in this manner is not shocking, but
when we present ourselves as morally superior, we'd better set a good example and keep the lower elements of our society out.
I do not hold Oreilly in high regard after what he did to the Swift Boat folks. I am cable deprived and have not watched Fox since they quit streaming over the web.
I do not know specifically what they talked about. Whatever it was perturbed you.
I treat individuals as individuals and do not berate or degrade or condescend individuals who have spent a year in the land of sand guarding islamokazi's. In my eyes unless they were capping off prisoners without questioning them they can do no wrong.
I am sure their living arrangements would seem like Sodom to you. It's a fact of life for those in the AOR. The pictures looked like PT with beer.
If having internet access makes me a noob, I have been a noob since the mid 1980's.
You are going overboard on this issue.
"People will cease engaging in behavior like this when their hearts are transformed.
It's only when people give themselves fully to God are they willing to give up this behavior."
If we give a bad impression of a Christian nation, few Iraqis will want to know Jesus, thinking His people are hypocrites. And incidentally, I think (and always thought) forced "democracy" in Iraq would place the people Hussein oppressed, the Shiites, in power. In ten years, women won't be able to attend school and will have to wear veils.
Etc....
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