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Locked on 04/13/2005 10:44:44 AM PDT by Admin Moderator, reason:
Endless complaints. |
Posted on 12/31/2004 2:21:30 PM PST by Caipirabob
What's wrong about this photo? Or if you're a true-born Southerner, what's right?
While scanning through some of the up and coming movies in 2005, I ran across this intriguing title; "CSA: Confederate States of America (2005)". It's an "alternate universe" take on what would the country be like had the South won the civil war.
Stars with bars:
Suffice to say anything from Hollywood on this topic is sure to to bring about all sorts of controversial ideas and discussions. I was surprised that they are approaching such subject matter, and I'm more than a little interested.
Some things are better left dead in the past:
For myself, I was more than pleased with the homage paid to General "Stonewall" Jackson in Turner's "Gods and Generals". Like him, I should have like to believe that the South would have been compelled to end slavery out of Christian dignity rather than continue to enslave their brothers of the freedom that belong equally to all men. Obviously it didn't happen that way.
Would I fight for a South that believed in Slavery today? I have to ask first, would I know any better back then? I don't know. I honestly don't know. My pride for my South and my heritage would have most likely doomed me as it did so many others. I won't skirt the issue, in all likelyhood, slavery may have been an afterthought. Had they been the staple of what I considered property, I possibly would have already been past the point of moral struggle on the point and preparing to kill Northern invaders.
Compelling story or KKK wet dream?:
So what do I feel about this? The photo above nearly brings me to tears, as I highly respect Abraham Lincoln. I don't care if they kick me out of the South. Imagine if GW was in prayer over what to do about a seperatist leftist California. That's how I imagine Lincoln. A great man. I wonder sometimes what my family would have been like today. How many more of us would there be? Would we have held onto the property and prosperity that sustained them before the war? Would I have double the amount of family in the area? How many would I have had to cook for last week for Christmas? Would I have needed to make more "Pate De Fois Gras"?
Well, dunno about that either. Depending on what the previous for this movie are like, I may or may not see it. If they portray it as the United Confederacy of the KKK I won't be attending.
This generation of our clan speaks some 5 languages in addition to English, those being of recent immigrants to this nation. All of them are good Americans. I believe the south would have succombed to the same forces that affected the North. Immigration, war, economics and other huma forces that have changed the map of the world since history began.
Whatever. At least in this alternate universe, it's safe for me to believe that we would have grown to be the benevolent and humane South that I know it is in my heart. I can believe that slavery would have died shortly before or after that lost victory. I can believe that Southern gentlemen would have served the world as the model for behavior. In my alternate universe, it's ok that Spock has a beard. It's my alternate universe after all, it can be what I want.
At any rate, I lived up North for many years. Wonderful people and difficult people. I will always sing their praises as a land full of beautiful Italian girls, maple syrup and Birch beer. My uncle ribbed us once before we left on how we were going up North to live "with all the Yankees". Afterwards I always refered to him as royalty. He is, really. He's "King of the Rednecks". I suppose I'm his court jester.
So what do you think of this movie?
- the cranky old fart who thinks anything recorded after 1963 is "drug music" listened to by the whippersnappers.
- the self-described Creative Class "high bohemian" who thinks that anything that becomes popular is bad (even if he used to listen to it) because it's become commercialized.
- the 1970's/early 80's discotechno/retro throwback who gets in trouble with his wife for running up the credit card bill on commemorative Time-Life CD sets he bought from Toni Basil off the 3AM infomercial circuit.
Of course I could be wrong and he could clear it all up by revealing his musical tastes, but methinks he's too embarassed.
typo - that should be "I can see"
I'm sure he's also got all 18 volumes of Pure Moods (tm)
On February 8, 1861, the first time Tennessee voted, the state voted 70,156 to 39,317 to remain in the Union. But in May, Governor Harris and his cohorts in the state legislature ignored the expressed will of the people and seceded. The politicians aligned themselves with the Confederacy and invited the Rebel armies to overrun the state. An election was held on June 27th to rubber stamp the actions of the politicians. East Tennessee still voted overwhelmingly to stay in the Union, but the state as a whole voted for separation. But given the presence of Confederate armies and widespread intimidation of Unionists, the legitimacy of this election was questioned by many. As the Louisville Journal commented on May 13th during the run up to the election:
"The spirit of secession appears to have reached its culminating point in Tennessee. Certainly the fell spirit has, at yet, reached no higher point of outrageous tyranny. The whole of the late proceedings in Tennessee has been as gross an outrage as ever was perpetrated by the worst tyrant of all the earth. The whole secession movement on the part of the Legislature of the State has been lawless, violent and tumultuous. The pretense of submitting the Ordinance of Secession to the vote of the people of the State after placing her military power and resources at the disposal and under the command of the Confederate States without any authority from the people, is as bitter and insolent a mockery of popular rights as the human mind could invent."
Given the behavior of Harris and his Confederate sympathizing politicians, I can understand why the people of East Tennessee would fear a lawless tyranny based in Richmond more than any possible tyranny from Washington.
The greater loss, on further thought, is the other posters who no longer put in the occasional comment or question or link, because they don't want to become involved in the stink-storm.
And the newbies who go away without ever posting anything.
You couldn't find an editorial from Tennessee?
Just wondering.
That wasn't a vote on secession, but rather a vote to call a secession convention. Several statistical studies have been done on Tennessee in 1861 that show a dramatic shift in public opinion toward secession following Lincoln's call for an army in April after Fort Sumter. The Tennessee legislature voted in response to bypass a secession convention and put the issue of secession to an up/down referendum vote of the public. That vote passed by 2 to 1 margins of 104,913 to 47,238.
But given the presence of Confederate armies and widespread intimidation of Unionists, the legitimacy of this election was questioned by many.
That's a load of garbage. If so many voters were "intimidated" to stay home in the June secession referendum why did 50,000 more people participate in it than in the February 8th vote you seem to accept as legitimate? Heck, more people voted in the June 1861 Tennessee secession referendum than in the state's November 1860 presidential election!
Of course he couldn't because he was intent upon deceiving. The June 1861 Tennessee secession referendum had over 150,000 voting participants.
Contrast that with the February 1861 secession convention vote of 110,000 and the November 1860 Presidential election vote of 146,000.
Yet he has the audacity to claim that the June 1865 election - with the HIGHEST turnout of the three - was somehow fraught with "voter intimidation." Hell, Mary Frances Berry's claims of "voter intimidation" in Florida are more credible than that absurdity. The simple fact is that popular opinion in Tennessee turned fervently toward secession after Lincoln started his little war. Secession sentiments were so intense that some counties along the Alabama border petitioned the legislature to let them separate from the state and join Alabama if Tennessee would not secede.
If you want to know what happened to your KIAs and how GOPcrapitalist brought it on, just contact Jim Robinson.
I can give you more of the story, but you're going to have to ask politely.
I didn't dream up the charges of a tainted election. The June 1861 Greeneville Convention of East Tennesseans condemned Isham Harris's coup.
"...the election held in this state on the 8th day of this month was free, with but few exceptions, in no part of the state other than East Tennessee. In the larger portions of Middle and West Tennessee, no speeches or discussions in favor of the Union were permitted. Union papers were not allowed to circulate."
"The unanimity of the votes in many large counties, where, but a few weeks ago, the Union sentiment was so strong, proves beyond a doubt that Union men were overawed by the tyranny of the military law, and the still greater tyranny of a corrupt and subsidized press."
For example in February Rutherford County rejected the convention by a vote of 1,539 to 1,003. In the June election the vote was 2,392 to 73 for secession! That's just one of the strange results from Middle and West Tennessee counties. I'm not saying that Lincoln's actions didn't have some effect. The less tainted vote in East Tennessee went from over 4 to 1 in favor of the Union in Feb. to only over 2 to 1 for the Union in June. But the returns of many counties with no votes for the Union was unusual to say the least. But beyond the election itself, Harris and the state legislature's politicians of the slave interest pulled the state out of the Union without prior authorization from the people which was obviously illegal.
Yes, that is correct.
GOPcapitalist recently compared Jeb Bush to Pontius Pilate, the man who ordered Jesus Christ to be crucified. Hard to see how someone could morally accuse others of 'Bush bashing' after making those comments, wouldn't you agree?
only damnyankees/HATERS/morons/kool aide drinkers feel that way.
free dixie,sw
the other day i posted to a NICE LADY (on one of the "veterans" threads)that given her interest in the WBTS that she should visit and/or contribute to our threads.
her comment was:
"i wouldn't lower myself to the level of the south-HATERS on those threads. i've visited a time or two & was HORRIFED & SADDENED by what they post."
i cannot argue with that, as "duckie" thinks i'm lowering myself by being "over here" & will NOT even read what's here any more. SAD!
free dixie,sw
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