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Endless complaints. |
Posted on 12/31/2004 2:21:30 PM PST by Caipirabob
What's wrong about this photo? Or if you're a true-born Southerner, what's right?
While scanning through some of the up and coming movies in 2005, I ran across this intriguing title; "CSA: Confederate States of America (2005)". It's an "alternate universe" take on what would the country be like had the South won the civil war.
Stars with bars:
Suffice to say anything from Hollywood on this topic is sure to to bring about all sorts of controversial ideas and discussions. I was surprised that they are approaching such subject matter, and I'm more than a little interested.
Some things are better left dead in the past:
For myself, I was more than pleased with the homage paid to General "Stonewall" Jackson in Turner's "Gods and Generals". Like him, I should have like to believe that the South would have been compelled to end slavery out of Christian dignity rather than continue to enslave their brothers of the freedom that belong equally to all men. Obviously it didn't happen that way.
Would I fight for a South that believed in Slavery today? I have to ask first, would I know any better back then? I don't know. I honestly don't know. My pride for my South and my heritage would have most likely doomed me as it did so many others. I won't skirt the issue, in all likelyhood, slavery may have been an afterthought. Had they been the staple of what I considered property, I possibly would have already been past the point of moral struggle on the point and preparing to kill Northern invaders.
Compelling story or KKK wet dream?:
So what do I feel about this? The photo above nearly brings me to tears, as I highly respect Abraham Lincoln. I don't care if they kick me out of the South. Imagine if GW was in prayer over what to do about a seperatist leftist California. That's how I imagine Lincoln. A great man. I wonder sometimes what my family would have been like today. How many more of us would there be? Would we have held onto the property and prosperity that sustained them before the war? Would I have double the amount of family in the area? How many would I have had to cook for last week for Christmas? Would I have needed to make more "Pate De Fois Gras"?
Well, dunno about that either. Depending on what the previous for this movie are like, I may or may not see it. If they portray it as the United Confederacy of the KKK I won't be attending.
This generation of our clan speaks some 5 languages in addition to English, those being of recent immigrants to this nation. All of them are good Americans. I believe the south would have succombed to the same forces that affected the North. Immigration, war, economics and other huma forces that have changed the map of the world since history began.
Whatever. At least in this alternate universe, it's safe for me to believe that we would have grown to be the benevolent and humane South that I know it is in my heart. I can believe that slavery would have died shortly before or after that lost victory. I can believe that Southern gentlemen would have served the world as the model for behavior. In my alternate universe, it's ok that Spock has a beard. It's my alternate universe after all, it can be what I want.
At any rate, I lived up North for many years. Wonderful people and difficult people. I will always sing their praises as a land full of beautiful Italian girls, maple syrup and Birch beer. My uncle ribbed us once before we left on how we were going up North to live "with all the Yankees". Afterwards I always refered to him as royalty. He is, really. He's "King of the Rednecks". I suppose I'm his court jester.
So what do you think of this movie?
oh Gawd...what utter crap....I'm sure Blockbuster will give it a whole rack in time.
This is what I'm talking about....steady barrage of shite.
It's done, it's over. Slavery, Jim Crow...all over.
Blacks now have full political power down here and control a huge chunk of the South....including most cities. Let's talk about how that's going? Nope...can't go there now can we...let's don't let abysmal facts get in the way of feel goodery.
It's done. What is the point about going on and on and on about "the absolute worst thing that has ever happened"?
Many Yankees (and Southern traitors) even though most got here after slavery...unlike most Southerners...just have to feed at this trough....like little self righteous piggies.
One day this will come to a bad end. I'm training my spawn well enough.
(I wish we could concentrate on the Moon Rock gang who have thrown down the gauntlet but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....sanctimonious do-gooders must have their lap dance )
Thanks, wardaddy.
I knew you would say it well...
and you did.
I've been thinking about that review since
I posted it...reading and rereading it.
Buying and selling slaves on the internet?
I don't think the movie is kind to the South.
no slave under Union control anywhere was freed under the Emancipation.
It only freed slaves in areas still in rebellion, secession, whatever the F folks prefer to call it..lol.
It was symbolic and has only recently become a lost book of the Bible after the PC crowd saw legs in it for further South bashing and white guilt fodder which has now morphed into Red State bashing btw.
BUMP
yep...I'm expected to sweat more white guilt as the descendent of a slaveowner here and there and lots of plain folk ancestors too.
meanwhile, my beloved cities are crumbling, black underclass crime is epidemic, white trash doing their level best to imitate their newfound homeys are working hard to catch up in the degeneration, public schools that I pay a pirate's ransom for are not fit for learning, illegitimacy is soaring now among poor whites same as the intergenerational plague blacks have endured since the early 60s and so forth....abortion continues bloodily unabated and American tyrants cut from the same cloth as the Radical Republicans of lore want to take away my only means to defend myself and my family.
And we have pre-medieval moon worshipping homicidal maniacs who follow a pedophile prophet hellbent to exterminate us and I'm supposed to pick up the whip and self flagellate over something I had nothing to do with and shite on my ancestors like they were all guards at Treblinka or something.
All do-gooders everywhere but especially here can go to hell in a slow bucket...and that's being kind about it.
It's lunacy. We deserve a cataclysm. We have lost our sense of propriety and what besides Moses coming down and parting some metaphorical Red Sea is going to snap us out of this self loathing mindlessness of guilt and race playing as a means to an end....a neverend.
I don't feel guilty about any of it and my reparations are done paid.
These folks will damage more than the Islamists given the chance.
It is physically dangerous (as in mortally) to be a known conservative black politician in my hometown of Jackson.
The new top rung is like Huey Long meets Stokely Carmichael meets Julian Bond meets Boss Tweed meets Charlie Luciano.
I'm sure Jackson is not a solitary example.
The new left down here got schooled in Chicago I think....or Crowne Heights or 125th street.
Sad.
Robert E. Lee for one.
Yep.
I'm a yankee who vocally supports the Confederate flag as a symbol of the history of the South. :)
This Robert Lee?
"Considering the relation of master and slave, controlled by humane laws and influenced by Christianity and an enlightened public sentiment, as the best that can exist between the white and black races while intermingled as at present in this country, I would deprecate any sudden disturbance of that relation unless it be necessary to avert a greater calamity to both. I should therefore prefer to rely upon our white population to preserve the ratio between our forces and those of the enemy, which experience has shown to be safe. But in view of the preparations of our enemies, it is our duty to provide for continued war and not for a battle or a campaign, and I fear that we cannot accomplish this without overtaxing the capacity of our white population."
From a letter to Andrew Hunter, January 1865.
Yeah, and the Founding Fathers never denied it. They knew that their actions were a rebellion, that British law did not support it, and that they would be forced to fight for their freedom.
A rebellion is by an unorganized regional group, whereas an existing government can lawfully withdraw from an already breached compact which it voluntarily joined without surrendering its sovereignty.
You keep insisting on that, as if one side deciding on their own that their actions were legal or that the compact has been breached. If the Union was a compact, then disolving the compact should have required the approval of a majority of the parties in the compact. Instead of doing that, the southern states merely walked out.
Again, you really need to read up on your history. Lincoln wasn't allowed on the ballot in all southern states and most border states.
I think yankees are from "up nawth"
and that does not include Montana. :)
I don't even own a moral high horse.
And I don't think any of my posts are a very good example of one.
I recognized that the differential fate of slavery in the North and South was primarily based on economics, not any moral superiority of the North.
I do believe that those who developed the despicable ideology justifying slavery as a positive good were morally inferior to most northerners, but then they were morally inferior to just about everyone in the history of the human race. Carrying this ideology to its logical conclusion would result in a very Nazi-like society.
Do to Christian influences, this ideology was never fully developed in the South, and was probably accepted by only a fairly small minority. But they were a very loud minority and in the hysteria generated by John Brown's raid and the election of Lincoln they succeeded in carrying the whole South with them into secession.
Eu tambem - uma Carioca do Copa Cabana! Hormones de novo. Aprende meu Portuguese depois desde otras Brasileiras. Eu nao quere perder o que eu tinha aprendido.
Minha esposa es de Colombia agora. Mais que dez anos junto. Ella e minha "Amelia". Ella nao me permito voltar a Brasil soltero, tambem. Eu fui 4 veces por carnaval e otras celebracoes. Melhor que Eu nao volta, neh?
I'll write in English for a bit, my coffee hasn't finish percolating and my brain is full. I'm down in Boca, I've been here since I got lost in 1989 on my way down after I got out of school. It was just too beautiful to pass up. I've been here ever since. I just love this area.
At any rate, the whole experience has enriched my life immensely. Seems at least half this generation of family married recent immigrants to this nation. It really makes for interesting reunions. A day doesn't go by that I don't use two or three of my languages, but more often than not, heh, it does come out as "Portanol". Down here people appreciate the effort though.
Let me know if you ever come down. We'll take you to some of the best Brasilian churrascarias in the area. They're really becomming popular. We have Porcao in Miami just off Brickell, was it there when you were? We have Gaucho Rodizio in Lighthouse Point and Chima in Fort Lauderdale. There are others, but these are premiere Rodizio Houses, the real thing. Brought my buddy to Chima the other day for lunch. The man's 6 feet tall and 150lbs. I'd swear he packed in 10 lbs of picanha, maminha and alcatra. Now he wants to go regulary. I can practically hear my arteries harden...Thursday then.
It's been wonderful that they've expanded so much in the area. It's so much easier than flying to Brasil for a good meal, and far cheaper than the divorce that would follow - lol!
Yes, so? He didn’t want to use slaves as soldiers.
He also said that he believed the relationship between slave and master was the best possible situation for blacks and whites in the confederacy. That doesn't sound like someone who believed in the imminent demise of slavery to me. And actually the gist of the letter was that Lee did believe that blacks should be used as soldiers because of the dire straits that the confederacy found itself in. And it is interesting that when the confederate congress finally approved the use of blacks, free and slave, in combat units, it could not bring itself to mandate that those slaves conscripted as soldiers be free after their service.
No, I am not from Memphis. I'm from Lincoln County, Mississippi.
When I was a kid, I had more sympathy with the Confederates and ex-Confederates, and felt, as you did, that they'd been cheated on the Amendments, but now I don't think that after four years of war, Northerners would have taken them back with out some important changes and guarantees being in place. Whether that unwillingness or the specific things the Republicans demanded, or the way they imposed their demands were justifiable or not, their attitude is understandable, just as some Southern actions that may not be justifiable were fully understandable. If they were wrong, they were wrong, but theirs wasn't the only or worst wrong of the time, and I hope no one is going to try to throw out the 13th and 14th Amendments now.
What I do know is that a lot of the arguments made now -- leave us alone and we would have got rid of slavery or segregation on our own -- were precisely the same one's made generations or centuries ago by people who had no desire of getting rid of segregation or slavery. It would only be honest to recognize this. I don't doubt that many Northerners were hypocritical and wanted the South to concede more to the freedmen than they were often willing to allow to their own Black neighbors. But to make that the end of the discussion, and not notice the ways in which some Southerners, then or now, were quite hypocritical themselves, is to make a mockery of serious historical exploration. You want to say that if slavery was wrong, that wasn't the end of the story and didn't make slaveowners bad people, but then you go on to paint abolitionists or Radical Republicans or Lincoln and his supporters as evil, end of story, and that just doesn't fly.
BTW, so many people here seem to be living in the 1950s. Is there a theme park or gated community, "Segregationworld" or "Seceshland" where you live, work and hang out? What I think you're missing is that conditions between the races have improved since the 1950s, 1960s, or 1970s. The kind of apocalypse that some of you see didn't happen, or came and went. Whatever the future holds, it will look better than things did 50, 100 or 150 years ago. I don't doubt that when minorities get power they can be overbearing, just as majorities can, but surely the country is less racially divided than it was in 1960 or 1970, and that is all to the good, and will make troubles less than some of you think.
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