I'm a liberal and I'm here to learn

[rogerv]

Hi, gang,

I was a regular contributor to the Kerry Online Forum and am now a regular contributor to the Common Ground Common Sense forum. I am a liberal, but I'll be the first to admit, I don't have all the answers. In fact, many of hte questions that matter to me probably matter to you too. I'm concerned with questions about how to tame power, whether governmental or corporate. I'm concern with the rule of law and how we can get the powerful to take it seriously. I'm concerned with the erosion of civil liberties. And yes, I am concerned about some things you may associate with liberalism--social safety nets and taking care of those who fall through the institutional cracks.

I'm here because I think agreement is overrated and that critics can be your best friends: they keep you from getting sloppy or careless. At any rate, I think there are things I can learn from you. I don't expect you are all agreed on anything--I expect there is a lot of diversity of opinion here. If you are interested in what I have said over at Common Ground Common Sense, I'm using the same handle both places, and you should feel free to come over and look around.

Anyway, I'm new here. Anybody care to give me a tour?

[Dont Mention the War]

Wow, it's been 6 1/2 hours, 600+ replies and your acount hasn't been banned! Congratulations! You just might survive here. That's pretty rare.

[Sunsong]

we should WANT to provide it, because it is in our best interests as a nation. it will cost less in the long run, and also, you know, keep people healthy. universal access to insurance is good for america, and good for americans.

What, are you nuts? Please provide evidence and back up your assertions here. I would say that universal healthcare has not been good for Canada, England, France etc Bread and circus is the way of tyranny, not freedom.

How is it that you cannot see the obvious?

[ExGeeEye]

...place the Zot guns on stun...

Ahem! 'Round heah, the correct expression is to place them on "stune". Dintcha get the memo?

How about the one on using the new cover sheets for your TPS Reports? hmmmmmmm??

Just kidding, of course :)

[Blood of Tyrants]

I have no patience with liberals. Like I said, there is no middle ground on the murder of the unborn.

[jwalsh07]

if the constitution doesn't guarantee every american the right to live wherever they want (and it doesn't) does that mean states have the right to prohibit you from living wherever you want?

You're wacky. Look up the word liberty. Then look up the 5th and 14th Amendments.

[pharmamom]

Yes, and Medicare underpays doctors for their services. Doctors make up the loss where they can with private insurers or cash paying patients. Medicaid also underpays, both for medical services and for drugs. In other words, the government controls prices for itself, forcing the rest of us to doubly subsidize the care for those who benefit from the government system: our taxes and higher health insurance premiums, costs for drugs, copays, etc.

Furthermore, Canada, Switzerland, France, etc., lag far behind us in healthcare research. Their citizens don't have access to many of the medicines and procedures we have here. Health care in Canada and Englans is essentially rationed.

Finally, some of us have philosophical opposition to providing for someone what they should provide for themselves. I do not feel that my money should pay for the lazy, smoking, obese, non-exercising Medicaid/Medicare recipients I see every day during the course of my work.

[ApesForEvolution]

Who doesn't want you to have quality, preventative healthcare?

Who is stopping you from acquiring it?

I see Left Wing-gers driving the costs up to the point that between insurance and government regulation, I can't imagine why (HIPPA) anyone would go into medicine, let alone NATIONALIZED 'HELP YOURSELF - IT'S ON THE HOUSE' HEALTHCARE...

Oh yeah, drink quality water and eat your veggies...

[jwalsh07]

should courts have the power to strike down a law prohibiting jews or blacks or gays from living in certain areas?

Such a law is unConstitutional because of the 5th and 14th Amendments.

[pharmamom]

Your last sentence is the best preventive prescription possible. Lose weight, quit smoking, don't drink to excess, exercise and eat right. Bang. Almost 75% of our healthcare spending, virtually gone. Oh, and there's always the unpopular option of actually reaching into your pocket and paying your doctor yourself. Or buying your own meds. Might mean going without cable and a cell phone, but hey, life is all about choices.

[Rytwyng]

I have no patience with liberals. Like I said, there is no middle ground on the murder of the unborn.

True. I have no patience with liberalISM, for that and several other reasons.

However, when a liberal asks seemingly sincere questions, it might be wiser to simply discuss things politely instead of hurling insults -- because SOMETIMES they do convert. I've seen it.

If you simply insult them, they go away with their preconceived notions of "conservatives are monster meanies" confirmed; but if you patiently persuade, you might end up making another conservative. As Lincoln put it, the best way to destroy enemies is to turn them into friends. Or as another higher authority puts it, love the sinner though you hate the sin.

[Sunsong]

The United States spends $4,090 per person on health care. The next biggest spender, Switzerland, spends $2,547 per capita, and Canada spends only half of what we do.

And your point is? Please provide and evidence and back-up for your assertion that America should want to provide universal healthcare - that it would be better for us. I happen to agree with the poster who said that we need tort reform.

I repeat: the countries who currently provide universal healthcare are deep into socialist slide. They have little or no military (except England) and they are pushing anti-American agendas. Please enlighten me as to why socialism is a good thing for America

[ApesForEvolution]

I can't disagree with any of that...

I tire of people not taking care of themselves, not seeking and obtaining knowledge that can help their bodies to heal themselves and THEN complaining about the cost of intervention.

Not to mention, Rx drugs are extremely toxic to the body and especially damaging to the immune system, among many other negative side effects.

Prevention, not intervention. But thank the Lord for sub-clinical / intervention measures that are available as a last resort!

[Mr. K]

Dude- first, learn what you are talking about. The items you mentioned in your paragraph are CONSERVATIVE values.

You are a liberal if you think more tax dollars are the answer to any problem, if you want to force everyone to accept gays- but reject religion, if you like abortion (killing an innocent baby) but hate capital punishment (killing a guilty person)

Keeping govt poer in check is a WAY conservative value- the same applies to corporations as a matter of law.

[woofie]

You are no doubt overwhelmed ...we have been waiting for you..

My question ....I have lost several liberal friends lately. Even last night some were saying in effect Bush is a moron....(mmmm, how come he won then?)

If someone says that about your candidate do you:

a. admire their thoughtfulness and try to understand their positions better?

b . write them off as arrogant and try to avoid them?

[ApesForEvolution]

if the state doesn't have the right to prohibit you from living where you want, why do they have the right to prohibit you from marrying who you want?


>>>

Do you get 'special' schooling?

[Sunsong]

While the United States spends approximately 24% of our health care dollar on administration, Canada spends only 11%. Our own Medicare (a single payer system) reports an administrative overhead of less than 3%, while private insurance company overhead exceeds 14%. According to a study by the General Accounting Office, if the United States adopted a single-payer system, the administrative savings would allow us to insure the uninsured and supplement the policies of the underinsured without increasing our health costs. Two studies performed by the Lewin group for the states of Massachusetts and Maryland came up with similar results.

Canada has been in decline since it went for universal healthcare, imo. And their healthcare system is in crisis as we speak. Canadians are not happy with it.

Let's get tort reform passed and then see what impact that has. And health savings accounts etc. Are you familiar with President Bush's proposals on healthcare?