The Pelagian Captivity of the Church

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals ^ | R. C. Sproul

[Gamecock]

Ahem, I know this will take a lot of work, but let's get down to Calvinist basics.

OK! Let's...

Jesus commanded us to go find the elect. Were there no elect in China for centuries, for instance, because no missionary could get in?

I have no idea. Are you suggesting that the billions of Chinese who never heard the Gospel are saved anyway?

Just out of curiosity, are you arguing from an Atheist or Universal Salvation perspective? Seems like a fair question since you know where I am coming from.....

[xJones]

Perhaps you should learn a little more about what the Reformed position actually is before denouncing it with grand words and appeals to emotion. Just a thought. In the mean time, do you have any scripture besides John 3:16 you wish to bring to this discussion, or is ridicule and forceful adjectives the meat of your argument?

If I got into ridicule, I apologize. So, what is the Reformed position - and realize, you're not just explaining to me.

[xJones]

I have no idea. Are you suggesting that the billions of Chinese who never heard the Gospel are saved anyway?

That's like asking, "Is a infant who died of a miscarrage saved?"

Just out of curiosity, are you arguing from an Atheist or Universal Salvation perspective? Seems like a fair question since you know where I am coming from.....

Good heavens, no. I accept the Niceane Creed, and am baptised.

[Gamecock]

OK, thanks. I just needed to know what perspective you are coming from.

Now, what happens to the Chinese who have never heard of the redemption that comes from Christ?

[Revelation 911]

for I languish in an Arminian/ Pelagian sea of doctrinal garbage. Most of my church goers think that being evangelical is inviting someone to church, where they can go and get saved. Or praying for someone, which is absurd since, according to them, salvation is of the man making a free will decision.

I cant imagine how unhappy you must be when fellowshipping with these folks -

why do it if you are so disagreeable with the "garbage"

[kosta50]

They do this at least once a week. I find it rather entertaining. It beats Saturday Night Live.

They don't have be virtuous -- once you are chosen you can do whatever you want, as the famous saying says Pecca fortiter sed crede fortius -- "Sin as you like provided you believe." Oh, they will tell you that there is sanctification -- which is just a veiled way of saying you have to do good things, but they won't call it works, because St Paul, whom they believe was a "Calvinist," said God will give each what he has "done." They reject St. James of course, and they love St. Augustine who is also known for having caused some uproar with his less than perfect trnalsations from Greek (the famous one "He Who is eternal created everyting at once while the koine Greek original says in common ); St Augustine could not answer why God permits evil (I would say there is a tinge of at least some semi-Pelagianism in it), but the Calvinsits will tell you -- God does both, and guess who is the tool? Why, you are! You are God's tool in His workshop, to be used for good or evil deeds, as He pleases. Machines, xJones, welcome to the world of "the Machines." The few, the chosen. The rest fry. God loves only some of His children, don't you know that?

But I still find it entertaining.

[Wrigley]

God loves only some of His children, don't you know that?

Did God love Esau?

[jimtorr]

But it can't be mortal if one is predestined as an elect.

Isn't that what Arian taught? (Arian is not to be confused with Aryan, by the way. Arian was an early church leader, not a mythical race of proto-germans)

[jimtorr]

I say it is few are chosen by God to Salvation.

I say it is God who knew at the moment of creation all those who would call on his name, and that there would be few.

Which intrepretation is more accurate, only He knows. I don't think it really matters either way, it comes to the same thing in the end. When one passes from this earth, either the Father knows ones name, or he does not.

[kosta50]

Did God love Esau?

Did Jesus hate anyone?

We are reaching the point of divergence here.

[nobdysfool]

If your not starting to argue as a Calvinist, I'll give you and hour to draw a crowd and I'll kiss your @ss on the court house lawn.

Pucker up, Big Boy! :o)

Go back and read the article. Sproul makes it very clear. And he's hit the nail square on the head.

[harbingr]

'For consideration and discussion:...'

'Once Saved Always Saved is the Devil's Perversion of Scripture'... Web Site and Book by Dan Corner...

'...also called 'Eternal Security' is a dangerous apostasy of Calvinism...

[CCWoody]

evangelicaloutreach


What a joke! If we Reformed are Apostate, then why aren't you a Catholic?

LOL! I needed that joke this morning. BWAHAHAHAHA!

Ok, now off from whence you came....

Woody.

[harbingr]

'What a joke! If we Reformed are Apostate, then why aren't you a Catholic? '
Ha, Ha, to You...so much for 'consideration & discussion...'

I Am Catholic...

here's More...Nine Reasons why Eternal Security is Wrong

[CCWoody]

I scanned your website. Is it also Catholic?

Woody.

[harbingr]

'I scanned your website. Is it also Catholic?

My Links are Conservative Christian - Both Catholic and Protestant - they are Links I believe are worthwhile for review, Best Regards...

[CCWoody]

I meant evangelicaloutreach. But you need to know how funny I think it is that a Catholic must resort to Arminian websites to try and refute Biblical Calvinism.

LOL!

Woody.

[nobdysfool]

This guy's website is a juvenile as his doctrine. The guy's got a Baptist background, no doubt. Some Baptists believe that railing against anyone who doesn't believe as they do is doing the work of God. His biblical exegesis is very poor. He doesn't even correctly define that which he rails against. He's put up a straw man, and then makes big show of knocking it down. What a waste!

[harbingr]

...'I meant evangelicaloutreach. But you need to know how funny I think it is that a Catholic must resort to Arminian websites to try and refute Biblical Calvinism.'

Welll,..I guess we'll just have to refer to 'The Catholic Encyclopedia - 'Calvinism'

Excerpt:..

'...Even an admirer (of Calvin), J. A. Froude, tells us:
To represent man as sent into the world under a curse, as incurably wicked-wicked by the constitution of his nature and wicked by eternal decree-as doomed, unless exempted by special grace which he cannot merit, or by any effort of his own obtain, to live in sin while he remains on earth, and to be eternally miserable when he leaves it-to represent him as born unable to keep the commandments, yet as justly liable to everlasting punishment for breaking them, is alike repugnant to reason and conscience, and turns existence into a hideous nightmare. (Short Studies, II, 3.)'

[drstevej]

HINT: Why don't you try your refutation from the Bible?