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To: CCWoody; nobdysfool
...'I meant evangelicaloutreach. But you need to know how funny I think it is that a Catholic must resort to Arminian websites to try and refute Biblical Calvinism.'

Welll,..I guess we'll just have to refer to 'The Catholic Encyclopedia - 'Calvinism'

Excerpt:..

'...Even an admirer (of Calvin), J. A. Froude, tells us:
To represent man as sent into the world under a curse, as incurably wicked-wicked by the constitution of his nature and wicked by eternal decree-as doomed, unless exempted by special grace which he cannot merit, or by any effort of his own obtain, to live in sin while he remains on earth, and to be eternally miserable when he leaves it-to represent him as born unable to keep the commandments, yet as justly liable to everlasting punishment for breaking them, is alike repugnant to reason and conscience, and turns existence into a hideous nightmare. (Short Studies, II, 3.)'

59 posted on 02/08/2004 10:01:10 AM PST by harbingr (you're welcome to...the 'Hideous Nightmare' of Calvinism...I think I'll pass)
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To: harbingr; CCWoody; nobdysfool
HINT: Why don't you try your refutation from the Bible?
60 posted on 02/08/2004 10:05:02 AM PST by drstevej
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To: harbingr
Welll,..I guess we'll just have to refer to 'The Catholic Encyclopedia - 'Calvinism'

That makes no sense...do you go to McDonald's to get a Whopper? Do you go to a Ford dealership to buy a new Chevy? If you want to know about Calvinism, go to Calvin, and the Canons of Dordt. Otherwise, you're just getting an opinion.

Froude may be an admirer of Calvinism, but he's no Calvinist.

61 posted on 02/08/2004 10:25:42 AM PST by nobdysfool (Those whom He foreknew, He predestinated to be conformed to the Image of Christ)
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To: harbingr
The following is an absolutely great analysis of John Calvins "theology" (sic) from the Catholic Encyclopedia...thanks for the reference:

Calvin gave himself out as following closely in the steps of St. Paul and St. Augustine. The Catholic teaching at Trent he judged to be Semi-Pelagian, a stigma which his disciples fix especially on the Jesuit schools, above all, on Molina. Hence the curious situation arises, that, while the Catholic consent of the East and West finds little or no acknowledgement as an historical fact among assailants of religion, the views which a single Reformer enunciated are taken as though representing the New Testament. In other words, a highly refined individual system, not traceable as a whole to any previous age, supplants the public teaching of centuries. Calvin, who hated Scholasticism, comes before us, as Luther had already done, in the shape of a Scholastic. His "pure doctrine" is gained by appealing, not to tradition, the "deposit" of faith, but to argument in abstract terms exercised upon Scripture. He is neither a critic nor a historian; he takes the Bible as something given; and he manipulates the Apostles' Creed in accordance with his own ideas. The "Institutes" are not a history of dogma, but a treatise, only not to be called an essay because of its peremptory tone. Calvin annihilates the entire space, with all its developments, which lies between the death of St. John and the sixteenth century. He does, indeed, quote St. Augustine, but he leaves out all that Catholic foundation on which the Doctor of Grace built.

75 posted on 02/08/2004 3:42:33 PM PST by Vernon (Sir "Ol Vern" aka Brother Maynard, a child of the King!)
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