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ZOT: How Do We End The War On Drugs?
about.com ^ | Andrew Somers

Posted on 01/04/2004 10:44:31 AM PST by patdor

Once we understand that the War on Drugs is an abject failure, the question arises, what can we do? What is the solution for ending the drug war?

The answer is very simple.

The core issues of crime and other social ills of the drug war come directly from the black market, not the drugs themselves. The black market is created by, and in fact encouraged by, the socio-economic effects of prohibition (called the “War On Drugs”).

As a result, the cure can only come by ending prohibition. But ending prohibition does not mean a sudden "free for all" of "legalization".

When alcohol prohibition was repealed, it was replaced by regulations and tax statutes that restricted distribution and maintained purity and dose (alcohol content by percentage). It also placed the methods of regulation for sale to the public largely in the hands of local and state governments, where it rightly belongs.

As a nation we are a very diverse culture. The values and cultural heritage of the east are different from the south and are quite different from the values of the west. The result is that federal level recreational substance laws fail in their ignorance of underlying social issues that are highly variable across the nation.

In other words, each state and locality should be afforded their own means of dealing with issues relating to drug abuse.

Thus, ending drug prohibition will be handled much like the end of alcohol prohibition - with the strict regulation and taxation of the manufacture, distribution, and sale of recreational substances.

The model of alcohol

For instance, comparative analysis of even the most pessimistic studies of marijuana show it to be safer and more benign than alcohol. Therefore it’s easy to see marijuana regulations mirroring those for beer and wine.

Hard alcohol is regulated more strictly than beer and wine, and certainly there are substances that should receive stricter regulation than marijuana. Soft drugs such as MDMA (Ecstasy), Psilocybin (Mushrooms), and Peyote, would need stricter regulation - along the lines of hard alcohol, which has significant restrictions on public use and distribution.

The very hardest of recreational substances, (i.e. the drugs with the highest physiological addiction rates, such as cocaine and heroin), would be regulated and distributed only by the government and directly to users. This distribution would seriously undercut, and virtually end, the black market for these drugs. This would greatly discourage the creation of new drug addicts.

It’s important to consider this last aspect of ending prohibition most thoroughly. It is the demonized “hard drug” user that the prohibitionists point to when declaring that the drug war must be continued.

(Excerpt) Read more at civilliberty.about.com ...


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: leroylives; zot
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To: dcwusmc
Well, if it's in big letters, and red, then it must be true.

Until such time as even bigger letters in a different color come along. Then that'll be true.

I bet when you're in a foreign country and people don't understand you, you speak louder. Right?

121 posted on 01/05/2004 11:39:39 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
Wow, another dope thread in the smokey backroom and I hadn't even been on it? Imagine that.
122 posted on 01/05/2004 11:56:23 AM PST by CWOJackson
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To: All
You all have a very nice drug free day. Later.
123 posted on 01/05/2004 11:57:01 AM PST by CWOJackson
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To: robertpaulsen
The letter size is only to catch your eye. I notice that you have nothing to say about its substance, though... Wonder why that is? Can't refute it? So try to ignore it and maybe it'll go away, right, Bobby?
124 posted on 01/05/2004 12:02:01 PM PST by dcwusmc ("The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: robertpaulsen
Is there a drug more deserving of prohibition than alchohol? Your own arguments would tend to indicate that alchohol is probably the worst drug there is.

And yet you don't want to make it illegal, you would rather keep the more benign substances illegal. I think I smell a hidden agenda here.

I have done some research into where the money comes from to support the war on drugs and it comes from two primary sources. the largest by far is from coerced taxpayers, but the alchohol companies are the largest single special interest contributers.

By analogy, some of the biggest contributers to the environmentalist organizations are the big oil companies. Do you think that just maybe the big oil companies might benefit from fewer oil wells being dug and no new refineries. It is a win/win situation for the enviromentalists and big oil.

It is exactly the same situation with the war on drugs. Alchohol companies want less scrutiny and less competition. Politicians want more money and power. Police, courts and prisons systems get more money, etc. Again it is a win/win situation for the government and some big businesses.

Do you notice a common victim here? Maybe I should spell it out, it is all of us, the great unwashed masses, flyover country, etc.

I guarantee that if hard drugs were as popular as alchohol they would be legal. Funny how that works isn't it.
125 posted on 01/05/2004 12:07:17 PM PST by LeGrande
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To: LeGrande
"I think I smell a hidden agenda here."

No, nothing sinister. Alcohol and tobacco have been a part our culture since the Pilgrims landed.

Cocaine and heroin, marijuana, PCP, LSD, methamphetamine, and all the other recreational drugs have not. When they did surface, like marijuana or opium, they were part of the sub-culture.

Drugs are not legal or illegal solely based on their relative danger. Never were.

"but the alchohol companies are the largest single special interest contributers."

Really? Huh. I bet if drugs were legal, it would be the alcohol (or cigarette) companies that would either manufacture and/or distribute them through their existing wholesale and retail channels. Boy are they stupid -- they're missing out on all that money to be made with legal drugs.

126 posted on 01/05/2004 12:21:33 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: dcwusmc
Nah. Free people armed with the truth did make a good decision -- they, through their constitutionally elected representatives, made marijuana and the other recreational drugs illegal.

You're the one that doesn't like the will of the people. You're the one that wants to do an end-around through the courts. You're the one that champions states flaunting the Supremacy clause in Article VI of the U.S. Constitution. You're the one who wants to ignore court rulings on the Commerce clause in Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution.

I'm fine with the jingoism. I consider it ironic that you would post it.

127 posted on 01/05/2004 12:34:28 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: CWOJackson
What, your "troll sense" isn't tingling?
128 posted on 01/05/2004 12:38:10 PM PST by KEVLAR
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To: robertpaulsen
Nah. A bunch of control-freaks in government, such as Harry Anslinger, played on the fears of white folks by linking certain minority groups with certain drugs and flat out lied that these drugs made white women want to have sex with (Chinese)(Mexicans/Indians)(Blacks/Jazz musicians)(take your choice). There was not a single word of truth to be found there then and still today we find an utter lack of veracity on the part of WODDIES and their sycophants and toadies.

Further, in order to be "supreme," a law passed by the Congress and signed by the president MUST also conform to the Tenth Amendment, which says (paraphrasing) that if a power is not enumerated to the central government or prohibited to the states by the constitution, it is reserved to either the states or the people. NOWHERE is there an ENUMERATED POWER for FedGov to outlaw ANYTHING. Nor does such fall under its implicit police power, for it has none, excepting ONLY the three areas spcified (treason, piracy and counterfeiting) or on Federal (military) reservations. The drug prohibition laws do not now and never HAVE passed this smell test. Nor CAN they.
129 posted on 01/05/2004 1:00:37 PM PST by dcwusmc ("The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: robertpaulsen
"No, nothing sinister. Alcohol and tobacco have been a part our culture since the Pilgrims landed.

Cocaine and heroin, marijuana, PCP, LSD, methamphetamine, and all the other recreational drugs have not. When they did surface, like marijuana or opium, they were part of the sub-culture."

So you are saying that tobacco predates opiates in the European (Pilgrim) societies? I think you need to study history, at least a little bit. Learning is good thing : )

Don't you think the drink Coca Cola was mainstream enough?

"Drugs are not legal or illegal solely based on their relative danger. Never were."

At last we agree on something, drugs are illegal based solely on the whims of politicians, not for any objective reason. If the Politicians, Court system, Police system, Prison system, Alcohol companies, etc. didn't benefit from the war on drugs they would be legal.

130 posted on 01/05/2004 1:05:30 PM PST by LeGrande
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To: robertpaulsen
The commerce clause has been abused.
There should be some evidence as to the intent and scope of the commerce clause unrelated to the courts.

131 posted on 01/05/2004 1:12:47 PM PST by KEVLAR
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To: LeGrande
"So you are saying that tobacco predates opiates in the European (Pilgrim) societies?

Now where did you get that from my statement?

Tobacco has been part of the American culture since before there was an America. Opiates were never part of the American culture.

132 posted on 01/05/2004 2:25:04 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
So you are saying that tobacco predates opiates in the European (Pilgrim) societies?

"Now where did you get that from my statement?

Tobacco has been part of the American culture since before there was an America. Opiates were never part of the American culture."

I got it from this statement of yours.

"No, nothing sinister. Alcohol and tobacco have been a part our culture since the Pilgrims landed.

Cocaine and heroin, marijuana, PCP, LSD, methamphetamine, and all the other recreational drugs have not. When they did surface, like marijuana or opium, they were part of the sub-culture.

Anyone with just a modicum of education knows that opiates (snuff, heroin, etc) had been used by the Europeans for 100's of years before the new world and tobacco and coca were discovered.

The only way your statement makes sense is if you think that our "culture" is based on some Indian pipe smoking tribal culture and not the European culture that all of our laws are based on.

Is that the best you can do to defend Tobbaco and Alchohol? And the war on the lesser drugs? How sad that truth and freedom mean so little to you : (

133 posted on 01/05/2004 3:03:55 PM PST by LeGrande
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To: GLDNGUN
After all, we should just trust our fellow citizens to make only good choices, right?

Groups of immoral people not "trusting" others to make good choices is a bizarre concept. The other behaviors you cited were those that violated other's rights. Some idiot smoking grass doesn't violate any of your rights.

134 posted on 01/05/2004 3:13:47 PM PST by Protagoras (When they asked me what I thought of freedom in America,,, I said I thought it would be a good idea.)
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To: _Jim
Okay, let's talk about alcohol prohibition. Do you believe all alcohol use is bad? Because there's a lot of evidence to show that moderate consumption of alcohol greatly enhances health. Banning alcohol would actually shorten many lives.
135 posted on 01/05/2004 4:12:48 PM PST by ellery
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To: _Jim
Is it honestly your position that all laws exist for a valid reason (and not because of pandering politicians, special interests, power grabs, p*ssing contests, etc)? Politicians pass laws because they can. Some are valid, some are not. But using the existence of the law to justify the law is faulty reasoning, imo.
136 posted on 01/05/2004 4:23:36 PM PST by ellery
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To: robertpaulsen
Alcohol is a value neutral object/substance, like a car, a gun, or oxycontin for that matter. It can be used for good or for bad.
137 posted on 01/05/2004 4:36:54 PM PST by ellery
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To: dcwusmc
If you don't believe that free people, armed with the truth, can make good decisions for themselves, then our Republic is as good as dead.

That's kinda how I feel - 'laws' are for keeping the 'stupids' (literally: the stupid people) alive and out of harms way (for the most part).

Take most of your local ordinances, building codes, state statutes etc. - regulations, for the most part that dictate what *not* to do as well as what *to* do in a vast and growing number of situations that a knowledgeable/smart/informed person has no trouble 'navigating' by himself successfully ...

138 posted on 01/05/2004 6:05:41 PM PST by _Jim ( <--- Ann Coulter speaks on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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To: ellery
Is it honestly your position that all laws exist for a valid reason

Where did you get the idea they were?

My big contention is that 'laws' exist, IN LARGE PART, as a result of AND FOR THE CONTINUED protection of 'the stupid' and the stupid acts they 'pull' in society.

Now, BEAR IN MIND the qualifying phrase 'IN LARGE PART', since, there is a criminal element ever-present for which we must have some statutes on the books to deal with (ALTHOUGH if we were to properly ARM ourselves the 'criminal' ranks might be substantially reduced in size due to 'attrition' doled out by the law-abiding citizenry on the spot during attempted robberies and the like).

139 posted on 01/05/2004 6:12:27 PM PST by _Jim ( <--- Ann Coulter speaks on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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To: Ecliptic
Regulation does not necessarily lead to no black market. It's just a guess.

This is what passes for logic with drug warriors. Not trying to insult you or anything, but national policy should not be decided on "just a guess."

That's the same kind of 1-dimensional "logic" that leads people to think banning guns will eradicate crime.

Think the drug lords in South America or Asia will stop selling drugs in this country just because they have competition from the government? Of course not!!

It may not totally eliminate them (is there any policy that achieves 100% of what it seeks?), but when you take away much of the profit motive, they will move on to something else. Have you seen any bootlegging gangs lately?

Legalization of any kind will just lead to more people using drugs at more times. Today airline pilots go to work drunk. Tomorrow they would go to work high.

It's possible that there might be an increase in drug use. However, we would deal with it the same way we do with alcohol. You drink on the job, you get disciplined or worse. That hopefully will deter people from doing so on the job.

But again, you're asking for perfection, which is unattainable (and I don't think any Libertarian is actually proposing that legalization will eradicate drug use). Instead, ask yourself if overall, America will be better off with an insane drug war policy or something, anything (I'd be willing to take tiny baby steps on this) else.
140 posted on 01/05/2004 6:22:38 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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