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The GUILD 3-4-2003 Giving Saddam what he deserves

Posted on 04/04/2003 4:59:40 AM PST by Hillary's Lovely Legs



TOPICS: The Guild
KEYWORDS: guild; theguild
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David Bloom, NBC, Dies

David Bloom, 39, died today of a pulmonary embelism while reporting from Iraq. He leaves behind a wife and three young girls.

81 posted on 04/06/2003 5:38:21 AM PDT by Hillary's Lovely Legs (May all of Saddam's virgins look like Helen Thomas)
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To: PoisedWoman
Hi, PoisedWoman!

Thank you for your prayers for this young mother and for all her family and her fellow POW's

I don't know why they givr her different names, my only guess is that "Shawna" is a nickname for "Roshanda" and "Shoshana" is probably a middle name or even a first name that had been dropped.

I'll try to see if I can get an address.

May God bless you and your family!

82 posted on 04/06/2003 6:05:35 AM PDT by Pippin (God bless our troops)
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To: BigWaveBetty
"there are other ways to go about it than to have thousands of people killed on both sides."

...and those ways would be?

Shut up dims. You had eight years to handle the problem. Give the adults eight weeks.
83 posted on 04/06/2003 9:09:13 AM PDT by lodwick (Pray for America)
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84 posted on 04/06/2003 10:12:49 AM PDT by lodwick (Pray for America)
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To: lodwick; All
Don't believe everything you hear from `experts', By Alan Dawson

The Iraq war has given a whole new meaning to the term ``armchair strategist''.

Until recently it meant an old, probably retired, military man with little or no battlefield experience, critiquing the terrible combat plans of today's young, upstart field commanders. The new meaning is some fellow in an armchair, feet up and watching television, analysing the war from pictures to anyone who will listen _ probably through a mouthful of corn crisps.

The incredible thing is not the wonderful technology that allows us to watch slices of the war, live, 24 hours a day. The incredible thing is that armchair analysts are not only taken seriously but have swayed the public, like the leaders of a lemming stampede.

Remember way, way back three weeks ago? The Iraqis wouldn't fight, the crowds would embrace the invading boys, and Saddam Hussein might even go into exile. Take a deep breath. Take another dive into the potato crisp bag. No one _ let's repeat that _ no one can tell you exactly what will happen this afternoon, next week or next month in the Iraq conflict.

In the incredibly short span of less than three weeks, the war has gone pretty much according to the American-British-Australian plan and, believe it or not, pretty much according to the Iraqi plan, although much faster than Baghdad probably envisioned.

That is still the case. And what you are seeing as you relax in front of the tube is decidedly not the war. The scenes are a series of incredibly thin, sharp slices of the war. The truth of war is that at any given moment, almost every soldier, sailor and airman is involved in an unexciting, possibly boring task.

Almost all are simply waiting _ to move, to stop, to go on guard duty, to burn drums of excrement, to get their mail from home, to eat, to sleep. A very tiny few of the roughly half a million coalition and Iraqi forces are engaged in sharp, intense and acutely focusing activity such as shooting, being shot at, dashing from one position to another under possible or real enemy sights.

That's what you, I and all the others see in our armchairs. The technology is incredibly changed in the 37 years since I first saw a battlefield, but one fact never has changed through more than 1,000 wars on five continents. One fact never has changed since a journalist described the US Civil War as ``long periods of drudgery and boredom punctuated by moments of extreme excitement''.

So the first thing is, what we see in the world's first war to be televised live are a few of the moments of extreme excitement or, as others have put it equally accurately, ``extreme terror''. And the second thing is that the long hours between these moments are filled with the boredom.

But the entertainment people who are staging this war are relieving the real boredom with graphics, maps, talking heads, repetition and replay, prognostication and real, old-style armchair analysis. (How do retired generals and colonels survive without a war to explain to laymen?) All of this is not native to war, but it is so you won't be too bored _ as bored as real soldiers in the real war, for example.

There have been huge shifts in public perception of the past several weeks. There was optimism the United Nations was getting a handle on the problem, then anger when it (supposedly) let us all down. There were predictions of the rapid fall of Baghdad, and later the hand-wringing over the ``stalled'' invasion and a rancorous coalition, not least the huge splits in the US Defence Department.

Presumably, when even the early histories of these turbulent weeks are written, we will learn and be embarrassed over how excitable and easily swayed we were. Probably, these microscopically eviscerated events of the past month were pretty much business as usual, with change coming as usual, slowly and somewhat ponderously.

This conclusion comes because while the new style of armchair analyst changes opinions, analysis and facts even faster than his hairstyle, the original type of armchair analyst is astounded at the impertinence.

The third thing is that the Iraq invasion is proceeding with a speed and string of successes seldom recorded in warfare, including the 43-day (yes, it lasted that long) campaign of the first Gulf war in 1991. And that was the model war for speed and success.

It is impossible to predict what will happen on a battlefield. Anyone who tells you otherwise is silly or uninformed, and probably both. No one who has served in the military during wartime will try to predict the course of a battle, let alone of a war. By all measures, though, this war has gone very well. The initial point forces rushed into Iraq, established beachheads and made contact with Iraqi forces.

Until now, the coalition forces have moved where they wanted, when they wanted and fought battles on their timetable and with total control of the air. The Australian SAS went deep into the interior of Iraq and blew up a command centre, which is what they do, and US and British marines set about capturing ports, which is their profession.

So far as is known, neither the Iraqi military nor any part of it has stopped a strategic advance of the invasion force and no missiles or bombs have been intercepted. Iraqi forces have put up defences at expected places, in expected ways and fighting proceeded, and is proceeding, pretty much as both field commanders and headquarters staff told journalists and the public it would. Still, what would have been a surprise in Iraq to anyone with military experience would be to have no surprise at all.

There have been unexpected events. Yet the slow capture of Umm Qasr didn't affect the advance on Basra, the uncontested rush across the Iraqi desert did not outrun the supply lines and the extremely slow start to the brutally misnamed ``shock and awe'' establishment of air superiority actually disappointed only the correspondents still standing by in Iraq to cover the huge civilian casualty toll.

Instant pundits have forgotten that the war began without four divisions of US troops on purpose _ a Bangkok Post analysis way back almost three weeks ago called it a ``rolling start'' strategy _ and those divisions were scheduled to move to Iraq after hostilities began. Things like that were known long before the war began. The lack of background to much of the wild-eyed optimism and painful hand-wringing of the past 10 days is stunning.

We live in times when marketers and even prime ministers feed our immoderate demands for excessive amounts of instant gratification. But could we all just take a moment and consider that this 24-hour telethon is not entertainment? Not only do thousands of lives hang in the balance if events proceed too quickly, too slowly or without due thought, so do immensely important affairs of state that touch us all.

The claim after nine days that the Iraq war was becoming a Vietnam-style quagmire was laughable, and war is nothing to laugh over. The attack on Iraq is impressive, as wars go, in strategy and _ so far _ in tactics. No circumstance suggests so far that it will fail in the objective of taking Baghdad and unseating the current regime.

It is unwise to predict the exact course of a war, but it is unwise at this point to suggest there is evidence that this one will fail in its military objective.

Alan Dawson has fought in one war and covered 11 as a journalist. Bangkok Post

85 posted on 04/06/2003 11:18:16 AM PDT by mountaineer
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To: mountaineer
An excellent analysis of the situation - thank you.

Surely everyone's advanced their timepieces by now.

Cheers.
86 posted on 04/06/2003 12:19:48 PM PDT by lodwick (Pray for America)
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To: lodwick
Actually, I forgot all about daylight saving time. When I saw a mention of it in the newspaper this morning, I nearly panicked, because I was supposed to be somewhere at 10 a.m. with a cake and lots of cookies (a reception kicking off our town's 150th birthday celebration), and it was already 9 a.m., not the 8 a.m. our clocks wanted us to believe. Oops.
87 posted on 04/06/2003 12:33:13 PM PDT by mountaineer
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To: All
I'm guessing "irony" is not in their dictionaries:

International Peace Vigil at Ground Zero
Friday, April 11th 2003 5:30-6:30
New York, New York

Join Lower Manhattan Peace Coalition, Women in Black and World Trade Center Witnesses United for Peace in conjunction with an international peace vigil on April 11th, 5:30-6:30. We encourage everyone to dress in black.

Location: Church Street between Vesey and Fulton Streets, behind St. Paul's Chapel, across from Ground Zero New York New York

Contact: Lower Manhattan Peace Coalition lomapc@aol.com Sponsored By: Lower Manhattan Peace Coaltion, Women in Black and World Trade Center Witnesses United for Peace source

88 posted on 04/06/2003 2:12:33 PM PDT by mountaineer
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To: mountaineer
If it weren't so sick, that would be hilarious.

Women in Black, shake yourselves. What about 9.11.01 do you not understand?
89 posted on 04/06/2003 3:06:38 PM PDT by lodwick (Pray for America)
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To: *The GUILD

90 posted on 04/06/2003 3:08:24 PM PDT by lodwick (Pray for America)
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To: mountaineer; lodwick
Are you two up?
91 posted on 04/07/2003 1:49:37 AM PDT by BigWaveBetty (Mean people SUCK!)
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I can't believe what I'm watching. Our troops all over. A C-130 landed at Baghdad Intelnational. In and out of palaces taking pictures, including Saddam Presidential Palace. We confirmed Chemical Ali is toast. Roadblocks at every outlet of Baghdad. Basrha is pretty much ours.

And that wacky info minister is still saying it's all an illusion.

Here's a good NYP post:

THE SECRET WAR
New York Post | 4/07/03 | RALPH PETERS

AS many as six Iraqi divisions barely fired a shot and evaded orders to attack allied forces. Chemical weapons still have not been used, despite Iraqi commanders receiving permission to employ them. Secret bunkers and executive hide-outs have been hit, with more success than the world yet knows.

Behind the precedent-setting advance to Baghdad, a secret war has long been underway. It began months - years - before the first precision strike initiated this conflict. And it is so complex and sensitive that many details will not be revealed in our lifetimes.

If you want to understand the risks this secret war has enabled our forces to run, just look at a map.

The sweeping attack by the Marines on the right of the allied advance leaves a long vulnerable flank. That flank faces the Iranian border - where Iraq's army has maintained heavy concentrations for over two decades. Some of the divisions positioned near Iran in the south resisted surrendering and had to be destroyed. But others, deeper inside Iraq, did not attempt to stage significant counterattacks.

A number of divisions scattered around Iraq simply remained inactive.

We hear a great deal about intelligence failure - but this war has seen remarkable intelligence successes. Even the appearance of Saddam's Fedayeen thugs in large numbers was no surprise to the intel community - the reports were available, but civilian decisionmakers in the Pentagon dismissed them.

From the CIA to special operations forces, our activities have been comprehensive and effective. Some missions are covert, meaning they can be revealed after the fact. Others are clandestine and will remain shrouded from public view. But both types have been strikingly successful.

American agents working with Iraqi intermediaries were able to cut deals with some division commanders (as well as making different deals with other Iraqi officers). Their units would not surrender outright - no white flags would go up - thus preserving their pride and maintaining a degree of unit integrity.

Just sitting there in place also gave officers' relatives some protection from Saddam's vengeance: By "delaying" their participation in the war, they remained a viable force that punitive actions by the regime would only alienate. Baghdad kept expecting those divisions to join the fight.

This inactivity was not as dramatic as if the units had rallied to the coalition. But it was an intelligent compromise.

And guess who will form the backbone of the armed forces of liberated Iraq? Many of the divisional cadres have melted away - deserted, at least for now - but those who remain will be crucial to building Iraq's future defense forces.

Regarding chemical weapons, a combination of psychological operations and quiet pressure on Iraqi commanders, along with ferocious attacks on delivery systems, has kept these munitions out of the war thus far. Reporters keep badgering briefers with questions as to why chemical weapons have not yet been found, but our commanders and troops are simply relieved that they have not been used.

Many Iraqi officers and officials have been sitting on the fence, waiting to see which way the war would go. Even that is a victory for our intelligence agents. If not openly supportive of our efforts, neither did these Iraqis seriously oppose them. They were neutralized, and their inaction helps explain the lethargy of the regime's attempts to respond to the allied advance.

With each new day, however, more Iraqis begin to cooperate. Even before the war, high-level contacts provided targeting information. Now the trickles of information are building toward flood-stage.

Local residents tell our forces where arms caches or Ba'ath Party strongholds are located. Captured officers reveal piece after piece of Saddam's defensive plans. And still more regime officials are quietly shifting to back the winning side as they maneuver to survive Saddam's fall.

YET even these remarkable intelligence successes are minor compared to what lies ahead. Much has been written about the seismic effects this war will have on the cruel, moribund states and societies of the Middle East. And we are, indeed, rewriting the region's future.

But we will soon be able to rewrite its past, as well. Access to Iraqi intelligence archives and the interrogation of high-level prisoners will enable us to reconstruct the secret history of the Middle East over the past 35 years.

Certainly, we shall learn a great deal more about the atrocities of Saddam's regime. But the information of far greater value will be what we learn about the regime's relationships not only with other rogue states, but with our long-term "allies" in the Arab world and beyond.

The Iraqi regime was a bureaucracy of terror. But it was, above all, a bureaucracy. It kept voluminous files. The secret police, diplomatic and executive archives will hold information on all the region's secret deals, as well as on the private lives and personal corruption of virtually every leader, cabinet member and senior military officer throughout the Middle East.

Syria must be terrified of what we'll find. But Egypt is doubtless plenty worried, too. And the files on Saudi princes are not going to be publishable as family reading.

We are in for some shocks as we learn of unsuspected betrayals. But the states of the region will be in for much greater surprises in the coming years.

It has been noted that the French and Russians did not want this war because they knew we would learn how they cheated on U.N. sanctions against Iraq. But the treasure trove of information we will collect on the Arab world and other Islamic states will be much more important. It will enable us to see into previously opaque issues and to squeeze many a corrupt leader who believed he was safe from external scrutiny.

The Iraqi archives will be a mother lode of information for scholars. But there is much we will choose to keep under lock and key for strategic purposes. The psychological effects of our access to those archives and to former regime officials anxious to tell all will be even greater than the practical information we accumulate.

No Arab leader will know what was or wasn't in those files. Each will have to fear the worst. President-for-life X will always have to wonder what we know as we sit across the negotiating table.

Our immediate goal will be to help the Iraqi people build the first rule-of-law democracy in the Middle East. That will bring its own rewards. But the long-term dividends we will reap from our secret war will keep paying off for decades.

The destruction of Saddam's regime will result in the greatest intelligence coup in history.

Ralph Peters is a retired military intelligence officer and the author of "Beyond Terror: Strategy in a Changing World." NYPost

92 posted on 04/07/2003 2:01:49 AM PDT by BigWaveBetty (Mean people SUCK!)
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Iraqi position explodes as US tanks advance into Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s main presidential palace compound in Baghdad(AFP/Karim Sahib)

US Marines advance into the compound of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s main presidential palace in Baghdad(AFP/Karim Sahib)

93 posted on 04/07/2003 2:12:54 AM PDT by BigWaveBetty (Mean people SUCK!)
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A smiling Iraqi woman holds her baby as a column of U.S. vehicles from the 2nd Battalion, 70 Armor passes through the town of Kerbala south west of Baghdad, April 7, 2003. U.S. troops took control of President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s main presidential palace in Baghdad and entered a second on Monday morning, the U.S. military said. REUTERS/Peter Andrews

U.S. Navy (news - web sites) Captain Frank Thorp during an Associated Press radio interview at the Central Command Center, Doha, Qatar, Monday, April 7, 2003, in which he comfirmed that coalition troops had entered Baghdad City center, raiding Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s Presidential Palace as well as the Information Ministry. (AP Photo/Richard Lewis)

Iraqi soldiers run out of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s palace in Baghdad April 7, 2003. U.S. troops took control of President Saddam Hussein's main presidential palace in Baghdad and entered a second on Monday morning, the U.S. military said. Photo by Faleh Kheiber/Reuters

94 posted on 04/07/2003 2:20:59 AM PDT by BigWaveBetty (Mean people SUCK!)
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Iraqi children ask for food from U.S. Marines in the city of Nassiriya, April 6, 2003. U.S. Forces appear to be strengthening their grip over the city after quelling small pockets of resistance by supporters loyal to Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites). (Desmond Boylan/Reuters)

Iraqi children greet Royal Marines from 42 Commando as they drive into the heart of the city of Basra in southern Iraq (news - web sites), April 6, 2003. After a two-week siege, British forces thrust into Basra, moving in from the south and the west, a spokesman said. Photo by Pool/Reuters

Children enjoy a new swing as a US Navy soldier guard a playground during a visit by a US Navy admiral hours after a team of Seabees set up the playground in Umm Qasr, Iraq (news - web sites) Sunday April 6, 2003. The Seabees have started working with locals in repairing roads, setting up playgrounds and helping in the distribution of potable water in an effort to return life to normal, following two weeks of battles against Iraqi forces, which culminated in coalition forces invading and taking over the town. (AP Photo/Roberto Schmidt/Pool)

95 posted on 04/07/2003 2:27:59 AM PDT by BigWaveBetty (Mean people SUCK!)
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Coalition tanks move along a road adjacent to the Tigris River, with fires burning in the foreground, Monday, April 7, 2003, in Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites). U.S. troops stormed into the heart of Baghdad on Monday, seizing key buildings including one of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s palaces on the Tigris River and the Information Ministry. (AP Photo/APTN)

Men believed to be Iraqi soldiers, seen in an image from video, roll down an embankment and into the Tigris River under supressive fire from coalition tanks Monday, April 7, 2003, in Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites). (AP Photo/APTN)

Iraqi soldiers, background right, are seen leaving their postions as shells from U.S. tanks rolling into Baghdad explode nearby, on the banks of the Tigris river outside Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s presidential palace, Monday April 7, 2003. Coalition soldiers took over key buildings Monday, as gunfire and explosions thundered in many parts of the battered Iraqi capital. (AP Photo/Jerome Delay)

96 posted on 04/07/2003 2:46:25 AM PDT by BigWaveBetty (Mean people SUCK!)
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A statue of President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) stands in front of a mosque in Baghdad's al-Fardous square(AFP/File/Ahmad Al-Rubaye)[but not for long.]

U.S. Army vehicle from the 4th Battalion 64 Armor Regiment 'Assasins' smashes a statue of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) outside the Iraqi Republican Guard's Medina Division headquarters south of Baghdad Saturday, April 5, 2003. U.S. forces took over the compound Saturday, which had been heavily bombed by the U.S.-led airstrikes and abandoned by Iraqi forces.(AP Photo/John Moore)

An engineer from the 326th Engineer Battalion sets charges on a Saddam Hussein statue in Najaf. The Army blew up the statue as local citizens celebrated.

Iraqis cheer as the 101st Airborne destroys a statue of Saddam Hussein on Thursday in Najaf, Iraq.

I saw the statue of Saddam on his steed get blown to dust on the tellie but haven't located a picture yet.

Think I'll go to bed now. Good night. :-)

97 posted on 04/07/2003 3:49:32 AM PDT by BigWaveBetty (Mean people SUCK!)
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To: BigWaveBetty
Good Morning,,,,, sorry I missed you. Sleep well. Why did you stay up all night?

Thanks for the Post article. Ralph Peters has been writing some great stuff throughout this war campaign. I've been saving most of his articles.
98 posted on 04/07/2003 5:08:56 AM PDT by Iowa Granny
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To: BigWaveBetty
Good morning there - you're up way too late/early(?) but those are some great posts. Thanks much for the information.

Cheers.
99 posted on 04/07/2003 5:35:41 AM PDT by lodwick (Pray for America)
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To: Iowa Granny
Good Morning to you. I feel asleep a bit early then woke up and had a sort of power nap - was wide awake. Then I started watching the war, some exciting things were happening. I'm still wide awake - for now.

I think I'll start saving Ralph Peters articles, they're very good.

100 posted on 04/07/2003 5:36:11 AM PDT by BigWaveBetty (Mean people SUCK!)
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