Posted on 01/29/2003 11:29:48 AM PST by Notwithstanding
Summary: You be the judge. A letter form the editor in chief.
... I bring these matters to your attention because of a threatening phone call I received a few weeks ago from a fellow psychologist. On page 78 of our last issue, PT ran a small ad for a book called A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality by Joseph Nicolosi, Ph.D., and his wife Linda. Nicolosi is a psychologist who specializes in trying to help unhappy gays become straight. Apparently feeling that this rather modest contribution to the literature on homosexuality wasn't getting enough attention, the psychologist, who identified herself as a lesbian activist, called me at home on a Saturday to tell me that PT should not have run such a heinous ad, that she was speaking for "thousands" of gays who were going to boycott PT, "and worse," that Dr. Nicolosi was a "bigot," that no gay person had ever successfully become straight, that homosexuality was entirely determined by genes, and that sexual conversion therapy had been condemned by the American Psychological Association. I told her that the editorial department at PT has no connection whatsoever with the advertising department, but she was unimpressed. She subsequently posted messages on the Internet urging people to harrass me at home (no one else ever did) and to send me complaint letters.
In all, I received about 120 letters, many of which exemplified a bad game of Telephone: Some people complained about an anti-gay "article" PT had published; others referred to an anti-gay book I had published and people who weren't subscribers said they were dropping their subscriptions. Several writers suggested I was a "Nazi" and a "bigot," and one compared me with the Taliban. A surprising number of letters asserted that gays have a right to be rude or abusive because they themselves have been abused. Most echoed the same points that my caller had made....
(Excerpt) Read more at psychologytoday.com ...
The example I gave about abused women was referring to two women (actually more) that I know personally.
Child sexual abuse can mess with a person's head in many ways. So can rape. To ban any kind of therapy addressing it, or acknowledgement of the possibility that these women are rejecting men rather than choosing women (and looking for a place to be loved and to belong) is cruelty with a selfish motive. And that's just one of many scenerios. I use it because I have seen it up-close and over a long period of time.
In other words, some gay activists so want to make the point that THEY can't and won't change, that they will sacrifice anyone else, no matter their personal situation, to achieve their goals. Regardless of your views on gay issues, that's wrong!
That would have been while you were still in high school... right? What moved you to embark upon this research? A social studies or biology class? Personal curiosity?
Rather ignorant bigotry on your part I'm afraid. Why don't you actually read the stuff on NARTH. The therapies come from all over the philosophical map, and many affirm no theology at all. Those that are religiously based work from a doctrine of grace, rather than a doctrine of judgment.
Given that I don't consider celibacy a "success", unless you're training priests, nuns, or monks, I do believe that some people can change homo- to heterosexual, and vice versa. More than just getting married and having children, or being Bubba or Bubba's b!tch in prison.
I think it's rare, but possible. There's been too much propaganda and not enough research to make therapy as effective as it could be.
If a patient goes in saying "this is what I want", then the therapist should try to help. I don't think it's fair to tell a homosexual who wants to change that he has to figure out how to be happy as is, but likewise, it's not fair to tell him that whatever his current situation or past history is, he has to be heterosexual before therapy is complete.
I am not talking about that. We may have differing views on that, but it doesn't matter. I'm addressing women who are homosexual as a result of rape or sexual abuse, particularly during childhood. I do not know the percentages, but I do know it happens. They need therapy.
I should point out though, that you argue here that the lines are blurred for women, and below that the lines are solid for men. Just a curious thing.
Part of the reason I reject the whole "they chose it" argument as ridiculous on its face is because I know that I, as a heterosexual man, could not possibly choose to change my sexual orientation to homosexual. Not sure that the lines are so clearly deliniated for many women.
The lines are clear for me. But I cannot imagine being raped or repeatedly molested as a child either. I can't imagine being a prostitute. I cannot even imagine being promiscuous. The monogomy lines are very clear for me, as are the marriage lines.
For that matter I cannot imagine being a thief, a murderer, a stipper, an alcoholic, I don't know...fill in the blank. Behavior is not inherited. Tastes and desires are pliable by culture, time, and experience. What made Jeffrey Dahmer desire to kill, dismember and eat his homosexual lovers? What made Ted Bundy desire to rape and kill women? Desire is not always normal.
Whether it is consciously chosen or not, it is not physically natural. Our bodies have clearly evolved to mate with the opposite sex. Whether people have the right to behave that way in a free society is one thing. Whether it is a good environment to raise children or an appropriate thing to teach in public schools is another.
I don't have a problem with that statement.
I has to be quite complex. No question about it.
Hey, let me have it, both barrels. Stupid me just wants to know how an article from a commercially driven branch of a university is credible science WITHOUT any cites…specifically the proof of MZ twins. Can you help me here Susan?
You said RE Maelstrom’s assertion “Yes, the queers knew we were straight.” : Ever had a woman come on to you strongly?
That is: 1. Not Forcing. B. You were clearly comparing homosexual behavior (wrong behavior) with normal heterosexual behavior (right behavior)…your own words corrupt your own premise. III. And since you compared a paraphilic disorder to normal behavior it invites other paraphilic “sexual orientations” in comparison.
So when you stop tap dancing and address the same analogy we can have a logical discussion over your “basic inquiry”...what ever that means.
You don't like fags, we all get it.
Slander and innuendo becomes you, should you care to cite my “hate” for anyone I’ll engage you in an adult conversation. Love the sinner and hate the sin is my motto, yours is self-evident.
Hehehe…Let’s rephrase:
Just because a marker for a gene or genes aliens have not been found yet doesn't mean they don’t exist.
Since the level of the gay population as a percentage of the heterosexual appears to remain rather constant, this also speaks to a particular gene frequency.
Oh? Then there’s a gene for chess players and swimmers since they are a “rather constant” percentage of the population. Is there a genetic aspect to all behaviors, or just this one in particular? This is just more goofy theory and junk science applications. You cite one conclusive genetic marker capable of replication 100% of the time and we’ll talk, till then your theory is just hopeful justification for your perceived injustice.
Many people with violent tendencies have a mutation in the gene that codes for the MAO-A enzyme. People with this mutation are much more likely to engage in dangerous, agreesive, and antisocial behavior.
MAO A is attributed to predict Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s and a host of other REAL disorders. Your assertion has only been consistent when related to abuse and yet there’s still no replicable research that proves it anything more that circumstantial. Low levels of MAO A do not predict antisocial outcomes period!!! Funny thing though, if that were proven it would prove homosexuality the disease that it is…
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