Where have all the good men gone?

MSNBC ^ | 1/27/03 | Barbara Dafoe Whitehead

[WFTR]

CHRISTINA IS 31, slim, pretty, a younger and darker-haired Annette Bening. The daughter of a professor and an artist, she grew up in a family where books, politics, and international sabbaticals filled her early life. After attending an elite boarding school in New England, she went off to college where she got interested in women's political issues and began to work in campaigns. In the years following college, she moved into progressively more responsible jobs as a fundraiser for Democratic women candidates and causes. At the time we met, she is working as the director of an international relations consulting group with an income in the high five figures. Yet there's one nagging source of discontent in her otherwise contented and accomplished life. As we chat over plates of mushroom ragout in a trendy Washington restaurant, she says ruefully: "I'm always getting involved with Mr. Not Ready."

Christina's last Mr. Not Ready was someone she thought she might end up marrying. They were in a relationship for three years. She followed him from the West Coast to Washington so that they could be together, and soon after they moved in together. But only a short time later, she regretted the decision. It turned out that her boyfriend needed extensive house training. Their story was Pygmalion in reverse. Instead of My Fair Lady, it was My Fair Laddie. She had to teach him, improve him, get him up to speed. It was exhausting.

[weikel]

I believe that most in my generation grew out of the childish notion of liberalism and socialism

So must of you did have it thanks for admitting it. Gex Xers in general never did. Your all going to be raping me in the future for social security thats proof enough.

[jaugust]

My point is that most young people grow believing that somehow the world is unfair because they see things which may violate their sense of justice. Most young people grow up socialist. It is part of the nature of EVERY generation of teenagers to be rebellious. It is nothing new.

If you're a gen Xer that speaks for itself because of the education system that you grew up on. What happened to all the hippies from the 60's? Many became teachers and college prof's, spewing forth their commie liberal diatribe to young impressionable minds. To your credit, it seems you did not buy into that diatribe.

As for my collecting SS, I would just as soon not. But the boomers did not invent it. What should have been done, and if certain groups weren't so dead set against, is to allow the option of setting aside a cetain amount out of FICA to actually go toward one's own retirement. I would rather do it that way than to be a burden on you. I am not your enemy; your enemy is your own emotionalism.

Cheers be on you

[gregwest]

Marriage is the "civilizing influence" on men. Without it, we pretty much stay in the "hunter-gatherer" state. The subject of the article moved in with her boyfriend, essentially "giving up the milk without having him buy the cow" (sorry for the indelicate analogy, ladies). The commitment for "FOREVER" is the gravity that young women need to domesticate their men.

Greg (happily domesticated for 20 years) West

[boris]

"We are having problems as a society not because men are "lazy and eternally childish," or because women are "mercurial and impossible to please," but because too many of us have forgotten why we were put here on this earth to begin with."

=====================================

A woman sees a store: "HUSBAND DEPT. STORE"

She walks in and sees only an elevator. Pushes button 1. Elevator stops at first floor: "Wealthy Husbands," it announces. She decides that's good but maybe better on 2. "Second floor, Wealthy Husbands who also are romantic."

She decides to try 3. "Third floor. Wealthy, romantic, husbands who help with the housework."

Hey, let's try 4. "Wealthy, romantic, helpful, and great with the kids. Wonderful fathers."

So she goes for 5 (last button). When the elevator stops, it says, "Fifth floor. There are no husbands here. This floor exists only to prove that some women will never be satisfied!"

=========================

I had a long talk with myself after several disastrous relationships. "Whatever you got, they don't want; whatever they want, you haven't got," was my conclusion. As the bumper-sticker says, "I feel much better since I gave up hope."

Hope, you will recall, was the last thing to emerge from Pandora's box...and some think the cruelest.

==========================

Someone asked me what women represent to me. I hesitated not an instant. "An infinite source of emotional pain," was my reply, and I see no reason to change it. Now a confirmed bachelor, 51, sick, and ugly, I sometimes actually feel relieved that all the sturm und drang is past.

--Boris

[Illbay]

I'm sorry for your pain, I truly am. But I have to say that your comments simply support what I'm saying all along.

Somehow we've lost our way, spiritually, and the result has been a great deal of resentment, and pain such as yours. It doesn't have to be this way. The present reality notwithstanding for centuries men and women have found a way and a reason to live together in harmony.

I love my dear wife with all my heart. She is truly my "better half," and personifies the "better angel of my nature." Without her am a far less than I am with her.

I think that's one of the grand secrets too many of us have lost (and I'm not praising myself; not a day goes by that I don't give thanks to God for allowing me this happiness despite my worst, past efforts to thwart it). I love the declarations made in holy scripture about the sanctity, the blessing and the necessity of marriage.

God has ordained that we marry, since Adam and Eve has it been so. When we lose our ability to live in harmony as husband and wife, we have lost touch with Him.

[Hawkeye's Girl]

This is a nation that has virtually no spirituality to speak of. Everything is about the here-and-now, the down-to-earth. Speak to a "Gen X/Y/Zer" of the need to see the "big picture" and they'll show you their 401k statements.
In short, aside from the need to "not be alone," there is no purpose for marriage. They aren't about to admit they might want kids (and if they seriously DID want children, they'd have them when nature intended that they have them: In their 20s).

Maybe where you live. That's the opposite of my (Generation Y) experience as everyone else I know is well on their way down that road (except for me, of course :P).

[Lazamataz]

There are no good men. There are only good-men-in-training.

[Lazamataz]

Somehow we've lost our way, spiritually, and the result has been a great deal of resentment, and pain such as yours. It doesn't have to be this way. The present reality notwithstanding for centuries men and women have found a way and a reason to live together in harmony.

Finally, there is something we can agree upon. Spirituality is an important component of your mate. Without G-d, the wedding vows are merely spoken words, devoid of real meaning.

[Illbay]

I truly don't understand what other basis for marriage there can be. The Soviet Union attempted to turn it into a "social contract with the state" (interestingly, although they grudgingly tolerated the existence of the Russian Orthodox church--and not much else--during their seventy year run, the Soviets absolutely would NOT permit marriages to be solemnized in the church; couples had to be married BY the State and for the State). But the incidence of spousal abuse and marital strife was quite high during the Soviet period--far more than if the religious still had a say in things.

Even today, the best marriages that I see are where the partners therein have included God in their contract. That's not to say that atheists can't make good marriages--though I always wonder why they bother, since it's just biology in their case--but the statistical conclusions are inarguable.

[Illbay]

"Down what road?" Sorry, you lost me. What is your experience?

[WFTR]

There are no good men. There are only good-men-in-training.

Your statement sounds like one of those nice sound bytes that seems profound but is really meaningless. If you mean that all people have flaws, I agree. If you mean that no one is perfect, I agree. If you mean that being a good person requires constant effort, I agree. However, to say that no one is good or more specifically that no men are good is silly.

The only possible justification is the Scripture that says that no one is good and that all have fallen short of God's perfection. However, nothing in the Bible or more specifically the Gospel message suggests that we become "better" by "training." The Christian teaching is not that any goodness that we have is a result of God's cleansing. Training may make us more effective at doing certain tasks for God, but effectiveness is not the same as the "goodness" referenced in that verse.

WFTR
Bill

[.38sw]

Where have all the good men gone? I read this when it was posted over on News, and was rather put off by a lot of the posts. Does this mean that I managed to snag one of the last good men available? Your comments make good sense to me. I would imagine that a good many men are asking "Where have all the good women gone?"

[WFTR]

Thanks for your reply. I think that many men are asking where the good women have gone or have fallen into the self-pity of believing that there are no good women left. Undoubtedly, our society has some big problems because many people are acting foolishly. When they do so, they hurt other people and particularly the people in their families.

I have no doubt that there are and have been many good women available. My frustration is that I haven't been successful at finding them. I know that my own mistakes have been a huge part of the problem. Maybe some who would have been good for me and been happy with me have likewise made mistakes that have contributed to the problem. I think people are having a harder time finding one another than they did in the past. Part of the problem is likely where our society is at this time.

Again, I wish I had an answer. First, having an answer would allow me to make things better for myself. Furthermore, if I could market the answer I'd be a rich man.

WFTR
Bill

[Hawkeye's Girl]

Most people my age that I know are married, engaged, or headed that way (except for myself since I'm currently single).

MTV really does give Generation X and Y bad raps. We're not all that shallow and godless, and while your post probably describes some of us, that's not been my personal experience for who we are.