The Hobbit Hole III - Journey to the Cross-roads!

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The Hobbit Hole!

Journey to the Cross-roads
The Two Towers Edition

Come on! Come in! -if you would like to have some seedcakes and a pint and relax a while. (If it is a special occasion, we still have a few bottles of the old wineyards left!)

Our first thread ( New Zealander builds Hobbit hole ) reached 4,100 posts, and we thought that was big. Our second thread (The New Hobbit Hole ) held us for over 48,000 posts, and we loved it dearly. We talked about moving to a new thread for the last 38,000 posts, but we are really slow to muster! Finally, the time has come. Tomorrow (at 12:01 am, to be precise!) The Two Towers comes out, and we start a new chapter.

[JenB]

Thanks for the list. Some of these, like Merry and Pippin and the ent-draught, would have been nice.

[Scott from the Left Coast]

Frodo (bobble-head) is horrendous. Put sunglasses on him and he's Roy Orbison.

[HairOfTheDog]

Heh. He is pretty horrendous. And Aragorn's head is just so... enormous. I don't know how they made it past the prototype stage! NewLineStore stuff has been better than that. But the Gandalf, I would buy. Ok, no I wouldn't. But I wouldn't hide it under the bed if I owned it.

[ecurbh]

Did any of you see this completely idiotic review? A few choice quotes:

Let's face it, folks; Tolkien was a crummy fantasy writer. Tolkien, while a great intellect, couldn't grasp character development, for the life of him.

The three novels Tolkien released, following The Hobbit, are actually one overly-long, extremely tedious story that could barely keep a coma victim awake.

The film is muddy and unpleasant to look at.

Then he gives a score of 3 out of 10. A desperate attempt for attention, methinks. And on top of that, he is suffering from a severe case of comma addiction.

[Penny1]

You will be glad to know, I got to see it for the second time today and I absolutely LOVED it! Every minute of it! I think Friday was just a bad time for me to go see it, emotionally burnt out and all that.

Frodo and Sam and Gollum broke my heart. And I even understood Faramir much better this time.

[LadyDoc]

EWTN has four programs on Tolkein:

1. Program Name: J.R.R. Tolkien - Lord of the Rings

Series Name: Catholic Authors
Host: Fr. John C. McCloskey with Dr. Thomas Howard
Date Produced: 1/31/01



2. Program Name: Tolkien - Man & Myth
Series Name: EWTN Bookmark
Host: Doug Keck and Joseph Pierce
Date Produced: 2/22/02


3. Program Name: Life on the Rock #289

Series Name: Life on the Rock
Host: Fr. Francis Mary w/ Joseph Pearce, author of books on JRR Tolkien
Date Produced: 12/12/02
Description: Tolkien's appeal to young people



4. Program Name: The World Over
Series Name: The World Over
Host: Raymond Arroyo with Dr. Joseph Pearce
Date Produced: 12/14/01
Description: J.R.R. Tolkien (Lord of the Rings)

The best way to find them is to go to the search page, go to the bottom and search for "Tolkien". You can either download the programs or listen. They use Real player.
Search page:
http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/intro.asp

Download links:

http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/dload1.asp?rafile=ca10.ra&source=frmselectseries.asp&seriesID=&T1=tolkien

http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/dload1.asp?rafile=bookmark2105.ra&source=frmselectseries.asp&seriesID=&T1=tolkien

http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/dload1.asp?rafile=lr_289.ra&source=frmselectseries.asp&seriesID=&T1=tolkien

http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/dload1.asp?rafile=wo121401.ra&source=frmselectseries.asp&seriesID=&T1=tolkien

Another link is still on the "recent Programs: A discussion with the cast of LOTR: The World Over
Host: Raymond Arroyo w/ Pete Jackson and guest authors from the Catholic Writer's Festival
Date Produced: 12/13/02
Description: The Lord of the Rings & Recap of The Catholic Writers Festival held in September 2002 in Steubenville, OH





http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/dload1.asp?rafile=wo121302.ra&source=latestadditions/seriessearchprog.asp&T1=-6892288@The+World+Over ">http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/dload1.asp?rafile=wo121302.ra&source=latestadditions/seriessearchprog.asp&T1=-6892288@The+World+Over


I hope the links work this time.

[Lil'freeper]

What a yucky, shallow review! My thoughts on why this moron is dead wrong are proving hard to express. But I will try anyway:

In my opinion, Tolkien was not a "Fantasy Writer" even though he wrote a fantasy, the archetype even of modern fantasy. Character development is all a modern fantasy writer has because of his addiction to the ever successful and ever stale fantasy novel formula. Namely: unlikely hero is visited by a mysterious someone and is given an impossible quest. Along the way he meets people and finds items that are used along the way to achieve the quest. There are no innovations, there are no nuances, no grand sweeping themes, no morals, no "application". And other than colorful characters, these books are quite boring.

The reviewer is trying to compare the profane to the sacred and saying the sacred comes up short. To lump a visionary like Tolkien in with the fantasy novel crowd reveals the quality of the reviewer's education.

[g'nad]

Folks I dunno how to tell yuh this, but I was sorely disappointed in TTT...

Everything was fine until they reached Fangorn... then I don't know what book PJ was makin' a movie about...

loved Smeagol...

[Lil'freeper]

That's it? That's all the review we get? ;)

[g'nad]

where do I begin?...

Too much focus on extraneous love triangle crap... the only reason for the whole warg battle (which I heartily enjoyed) was so that we could see the distress it caused Eowyn and just how much she cared for Aragorn when he came up missing...and don't even get me started on his float down the river on his back...

Treebeard and the other Ents unaware of Saruman's raping of Fangorn? Preposterous! How would Pippin even have a clue as to what was happening around Isengard... The hobbits having to goad the Ents into action? Just can't buy it...

Theoden was not a weakling, but he was portrayed as such to give strength to Aragorn...

Erkenbrand road to the relief of Helm's Deep, not Eomer... what would have been hard about working Erkenbrand into the script?... all it would have taken is swapping the name Erkenbrand for Eomer, and when the riders arrived,all it would require is having someone say "Look! There's Erkenbrand!"... It was Eomer that stood in the breech with Aragorn, and I would have liked to have seen Hama die a more noble death filling the breech than squeeling at the feet of a warg...

Faramir wasn't nearly the man that Tolkien portrayed... the whole Osgiliath sidetrack could have been dropped for something that actually followed the story...

Gimli, while an apt comic relief, and not entirely out of character, I did not enjoy his buffooonery... while some of the comedy can be written off as courageous bravado (and I've seen my share) the dwarf tossing, eating at Medutheld, and pinned under the Warg were out of character, and unnecessary... why did he need new chain mail at HD? He is the most heavily armed and armored in the party...

The elves at Helm's Deep... while there's nothing I enjoy more than seein an Elf get iced, their participation added nothing... The elves fought and cleared out Dol Guldur while Aragorn was marching on the Black Gates... if PJ wanted to show the Elves still cared enough about ME to shed their blood, the time spent on the elves at HD could have shown or talked about their heroic and costly victory at Dol Guldur...

and if you are gonna show the elves, what about the dwarves and the carnage in the Dale? Dain and Brand nearly lost that fight too...

Loved Smeagol, and his split personality conversations were outstanding...

Loved the look of the Ents...

FOTR was better...

[ksen]

If he had been around at the time this guy probably would have complained about Homer being a mere "fantasy writer."

[ksen]

Thanks for the review bro'.

Will you see it again in the theatre? It seems that these movies get better with the second and third viewings.

Wouldn't Pippen know what Saruman was doing based on Gandalf's report after his escape from Orthanc? I don't have the book in front of me but I seem to remember our hobbits having to tell Treebeard about Saruman and the forest. I could be wrong though.

How'd Mick like it? Did you have to liberate many tongues from offensive mouths?

194 1/2 HOURS TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!

[g'nad]

Yeah... Pip may have known, but the fact that PJ expected us to believe the Ents need Pip to tell them?... c'mon...

Mick and his father, Peter (visiting from down under) were not pleased either... their comments were a little choicer, and too rough for the tender ears of the ladies of the Hole...

I'll go see it again... hopefully it will grow on me, but I kinda doubt it...

I had my folding buck knife and my .45, but I didn't have a need to use 'em...

[Lil'freeper]

Good review, you make good points. Especially about Treebeard's lack of awareness.

[g'nad]

the main reason for the Ent Moot was because of Saruman's encroachment in Fangorn...

[ksen]

Faramir wasn't nearly the man that Tolkien portrayed...

That's what most everybody else has been saying, but read this. I think we may find that it is US who have had the wrong impression of Faramir.

[ecurbh]

Just a few comments:

Too much focus on extraneous love triangle crap

I don't think it is crap at all. It's all there in the text:

As she stood before Aragorn she paused suddenly and looked upon him, and her eyes were shining. And he looked down upon her fair face and smiled; but as he took the cup, his hand met hers, and he knew that she trembled at the touch. 'Hail Aragorn son of Arathorn!' she said. 'Hail Lady of Rohan!' he answered, but his face now was troubled and he did not smile.

He seems to be troubled by her response to him, and unsure how to respond. I thought they did this part quite well. IMHO.

Erkenbrand road to the relief of Helm's Deep, not Eomer... what would have been hard about working Erkenbrand into the script?

The same reason Glorfindel was not included - he is a minor character that makes a brief appearance, then is never heard from again. It is necessary compression of characters for a film. There are already over a dozen major characters for audiences to keep track of. Even after reading LotR several times, I am not attached to Erkenbrand in the least. Who is he anyway, just another Rohirrim general? I have no problem with losing him in the film.

Faramir wasn't nearly the man that Tolkien portrayed

There is a great post that covers this in great detail.

The hobbits having to goad the Ents into action?

They don't goad them into action, they just manage to get them to see the destruction firsthand. I don't think they are unaware that trees are being cut down - after all, Treebeard does say that "Smoke always rises from Isengard these days." Where else would all that smoke come from. But they have not seen the extent of it for themselves. And it is that which finally rouses them into action.

Go see it again. On multiple viewing, once you get used to the changes, maybe you can start to see what WAS included rather than what wasn't.

[ksen]

Anyone know if there is an electronic copy of The Two Towers lying around on the net somewhere?

[g'nad]

I've read that, and remember his actions from the book... PJ's Faramir is not from the same cut, IMHO...

[ksen]

I haven't seen PJ's Faramir yet, so I may still come to agree with you.

It has been nice seeing the reactions everybody here had to the movie. I think it will help brace me through the parts that don't quite match up to the book.

I am planning on attending the first showing on New Year's Day, which should be at 11:00am, with my daughter, and then turning around and seeing it again at 4:00pm with my wife and the rest of my kids.