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To: daylate-dollarshort
Well, yes to you and all others, this is BS.

And, I question your credentials and motive.

I have had several conversations with his wife, and the drivel you are all spouting is the same spin put out by the MG court. Where do you get your definition of arson? MG law, US criminal law?

If I light a candle to set off a sprinkler and alarm system, is that arson? No. His admission that he lit a candle in wastebasket is not an admission of arson. It is intellectually dishonest for any American to deny that whenever they are threatened and need help from authorities, the very first thing to do is yell fire. Ted did the same, only he could not use the phone lines b/c they had been cut. So he set off the sprinklers.

You shrug off that a basement fire is of little importance. Well, if your going to convict Ted, you damn sure better prove that his act of lighting a candle destroyed the condo. Ted's fire experts, and that of the MG investigative fire expert, conclude that the fire that actually caused the condo to be consumed started in the basement. Something called proximate cause. Maybe you should pull a first year law book.

Is his wife Heidi lying too? What about his brother? What about Safra's bodyguards, ex-Mossad agents? What about Kissinger, who stated that Safra's death was planned? All of these people skillfully crafted lies?

Do your homework before you determine someone is guilty, you all make me want to puke!!!!
10 posted on 11/22/2002 2:54:43 PM PST by job
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To: job
You just don't get it...

Maher is in court and this is his chance to tell his story, better yet, tell the truth.

It looks like he has.

12 posted on 11/22/2002 3:09:54 PM PST by KKing
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To: job
Why stick a candle in a wastepaper basket? If you're trying to set a fire alarm off just hang onto the candle and jam that sucker up there. Most candles are shorter than trashcans, by having it in a trashcan he's moving the candle further from the detecting unit. Also you have a problem with tilt, what's gonna happen to the candle in the basket when you pick it up to get it to the detecting unit? Are you gonna take the time to melt the bottom of the candle to stick it to the bottom of the trashcan? The explanaition, as you've laid it out, simply doesn't add up. Unless he's using the candle to start a fire in the trashcan there's no reason for a trashcan to be involved. And I knew when I was 8 that fires and trashcans are a bad combo (got in a lot of trouble for that too). And if he started a fire in a difficult to control environment (like a trashcan) and that fired went on to destroy property and lives then yes indeed it is arson.

As for what everybody else says: if they weren't there it's just conjecture, conjecture can be wrong without the person lieing. Maher was there, he just said he started a fire in the trashcan on purpose and NOT to alert authorities to some invader. So unless you're prepared to say that he is lieing under oath it's open and shut.
13 posted on 11/22/2002 3:21:07 PM PST by discostu
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To: job; PhilDragoo
Is his wife Heidi lying too? What about his brother?

His wife, who regularly comes on FR to spew her venom at those who think Maher was guilty from the get-go, is as nutty as her husband. She's not telling the truth, that's for sure, but she may not be mentally stable enough to be called "lying."

Did you not read the article?

Maher is in court. He confessed to starting the fire, to impress his boss. He's guilty. All that bullshit that's been all over this site for the last year about "freeing Ted Maher" was put up by dupes of the Maher family.

Free Ted Maher indeed! He ought to be locked up for life.

What a nutjob!

14 posted on 11/22/2002 3:32:40 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: job
You might go to http://www.tedmaher.com/ and click on the links that they post under the "Trail Updates" heading. Some of the stories are in French, but the ABC/Reuters story is in English and matches the other news stories posted here.

His wife apparently admitted to at least one newspaper that the fire was caused by paper (not merely a candle as has been suggested above)

From a story in the April 29, 2001 Portsmouth Herald
http://www.seacoastonline.com/2001news/4_29a.htm

Maher and the second nurse who later died in the fire weren't supposed to be working that December day, but were scheduled at the last minute, Heidi Maher told the Herald.

There was apparently trouble that day.

In the early morning hours, Maher reported a break-in to his employer and said two hooded intruders entered the penthouse, which is located above Safra's Republic National Bank.

The intruders allegedly stabbed Maher in the leg and abdomen. While Torrente huddled in a locked bathroom with Safra, Maher gave her his cellular phone and told her to call for help.

"He was trying to save them that night," Heidi said.

Maher then went and lighted a fire in a wastepaper basket and placed the small fire under a fire alarm. That December night, Safra's penthouse went up in flames.

"The only fire my husband lit was a piece of paper being held under the smoke alarm leading to the fire station," she said. "It was lit solely to get help to arrive since the police refused to respond to pleas of help."

Safra's wife, Lily, had been alerted of the intruders and as the flames and smoke engulfed the luxury penthouse, she escaped through the bedroom window.

Between 4:50 and 6:30 a.m., Safra and Torrente made nearly a dozen calls on two cellular phones.

Police and fire officials pleaded with Safra on the phone to come out of the burning building, according to reports, but he was so afraid of being killed, he refused to leave the bathroom. Instead, he placed wet towels along the bottom of the bathroom door.

Two hours later, rescuers reached the banking tycoon and Torrente, but it was too late, Dunne reported in Vanity Fair.

Rumors quickly spread through the tiny country that the Russian Mafia or Palestinian terrorists may have assassinated Safra. Initially, Ted Maher was named a hero, even though his billionaire employer had perished in the blaze.

Maher faces wrongful death charges in that by lighting the fire, he caused the deaths of Safra and Torrente.

Maher was rushed to Princess Grace Hospital, where he was treated for his wounds. But authorities began to focus on the American nurse as their prime suspect.

Heidi said her husband never would have purposely harmed Safra or anyone else.

Authorities in Monaco later discovered a second fire that night in the basement of Safra's building, but nobody has been charged at this time for lighting that fire.
15 posted on 11/22/2002 3:47:39 PM PST by PAR35
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To: job
You haven't addressed the salient issue: why did Ted Maher say what he has just said in open court, if it is not the truth?
17 posted on 11/22/2002 3:54:48 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: job
Where do you get your definition of arson?

It's fairly simple.

1. Did he start the fire?
Yes.

2. Did anyone die from this fire?
Yes.

Res Ipsa Loquitur.

18 posted on 11/22/2002 3:55:27 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: job; Nita Nuprez
Do your homework before you determine someone is guilty, you all make me want to puke!!!!

Why was this thread just moved to the chat forum?

26 posted on 11/22/2002 8:41:21 PM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: job
”Well, yes to you and all others, this is BS”. ”And, I question your credentials and motive.”

As has become evident in other posts on this thread, you seem to be in the minority. As to mycredentials and motive, I should ask you the same. My motive is like most on this thread, to seek truth and find justice. As to my qualifications, I have followed this story from its beginnings, am a registered user of FreeRepublic and am free to form opinions and express them.

Where do you get your definition of arson? MG law, US criminal law?

Both. Arson as defined under US law includes ”the burning of an inhabited dwelling-house in the nighttime. The burning or blowing up of property when the actor forsees or anticipates the presence of persons at the site, or in such close proximity thereto, so their lives might be endangered by the act.” Maher’s actions comport with this definition when viewed together with his own admission that he was conducting a hoax, the aim of which was to benefit himself.

Article 372 of Monaco's code of criminal law provides that: "anyone spreading a fire to one of the properties listed in the previous articles, by deliberately setting fire to any one of the properties, belonging to him or to someone else, and placed in such a way that the fire would spread, shall be punished with the same penalty as if he had directly set fire to one of the said properties".

Article 373 of Monaco's code of criminal law provides that: "In all these cases, the penalty shall be life imprisonment if the fire, for anyone being in the premises, resulted in death, injuries or invalidity defined in the second paragraph of Article 235."

The Appeal Court after investigation, in transferring Ted Maher's case for trial, found enough "information" against him :

"for having in Monaco, on 3 December 1999, spread the fire in the apartment of the Safra couple located in the building Belle Epoque by willfully setting fire to a trash can, placed in such a way as to spread the said fire to the lived in premises, resulting in the death of two persons found there, Edmond Safra and Vivian Torrente,

a crime provided and punished by Articles 372 and 373 of the code of criminal law:"

Maher was ordered to trial for these crimes.

"You shrug off that a basement fire is of little importance."

No, I don't shrug it off- I dismiss it completely. The fire in the trash room in the basement trash bin (or has been variously described as dust bin and clutter bin, etc.) occurred at 6 PM about 12 hours after the fire set by Maher. The building was heavily fire damaged with fire discovered in the walls and floors. Embers or other flaming debris could very easily and likely found its way to the basement. One obvious way was via the trash chute.

As to whether Maher’s wife and brother are lying or not is irrelevant. They are not witnesses. They weren’t there. I would characterize them as advocates who by virtue of believing Maher’s lies became victims.

Ted Maher is portrayed by his advocates as a fine upstanding individual who gallantly served his country as a member of the U.S. Army Special Forces. It is inferred and actually stated that he was an honorable man. I can’t help but notice that his advocates don’t report that he has a criminal record. In June, 1985 he was convicted in this country of burglary, grand theft and destruction of private property. He was sentenced to one year in prison, three years probation and seventy-five hours of community service. Do his advocates lie? Maybe they just don’t tell the complete truth.

29 posted on 11/23/2002 10:36:53 AM PST by daylate-dollarshort
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To: job; wimpycat; Catspaw; RGSpincich; Poohbah
Oh, give me a damn break. Dozens of threads on this freaking loser, where his apologists loudly shriek he didn't start the fire, and for what?

Now he finbally admits it, despite all the tinfoil the losers wasted.

This is like every goofy right wing litigation cause celebre that happens around here, where in the end, it was all just a bunch of ideological masturbation for the unhinged.

32 posted on 11/26/2002 9:49:17 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine
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