Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/26/02 to ???

[freedox]

I recall reading for myself that LE remained at the Smart house for some time following the abduction. That wasn't my question. My question was with regard to the statements of "fact" that the Smart family had been specifically instructed by LE not to discuss the abduction with MK. I was hoping that GS (or you, if you're up to it) could provide some documentation of these instructions.......other than Ed Smart's say so.

[freedox]

LOL!!! Got ya kind of worked up, huh?

[Devil_Anse]

this parole hearing was in November, 1999...got anything more recent?

That one is particularly telling in that it gives his own assessment of himself. He has obviously at least given lip service to the point that all drug AND alcohol programs always must bring home: once a person develops an addiction, it is for life. It does not go away. There is never a guarantee that they will not use or drink again.

Ricci committed crimes while out on parole--in the past, and during his last parole. He didn't follow the biggest, baddest provision of parole, the one that if you violate it, you get locked back up for sure--the one that says "no new crimes, no new arrests." Why would he bother with the lesser provisions, such as drug use prohibition? On those, sometimes one can talk his way out of falling off the wagon, at least once. The parole officer would not have left that basis for revocation in, if it hadn't existed right when he was about to have parole revoked. They are very specific, and number the conditions which have not been followed. They only include what they can prove.

[Devil_Anse]

Freedox, I've always thought of Ricci that way, ever since I heard of his long record. Hey, we don't have certified copies of those convictions, you know. Maybe he really didn't have those convictions...

[Devil_Anse]

If drug paraphernalia had been found in the Ricci trailer, automobiles, or jeep, you can bet it would have been reported.

If he'd been charged with possession of drug paraphernalia, it would have been reported. If he had not been charged with it, the media would have stayed away from it. Maybe they'd have feared a defamation lawsuit--b/c if he wasn't charged with it, they would have feared that was just a rumor.

It's also possible that he didn't want his WIFE to know that he was using. Might lose that nice roof over his head, and that attractive woman who spoke up for him all the time. He was going to need her even more when he was in prison. Cons always fare lots better if they've got someone on the outside who will do their bidding and send them money.

[Jolly Green]

If Ricci had been actively using illicit drugs at the time of his arrest, it would have been easily detected. Why would it not have been reported?

Ricci was eager to stash something under Thurber's trailer. May have been drugs. May have been a gun. In any event, after Thurber caught him, he had to find another hiding place.

[Devil_Anse]

LOL!!! Got ya kind of worked up, huh?

The mention of Al Gore is always a last resort.

[freedox]

"They are very specific, and number the conditions which have not been followed. They only include what they can prove."

I have no doubt that you are correct. Apparently, what could be proved was that Ricci had not attended some sort of "treatment program." What I did not see proved, nor listed among his offenses, were any charges related to current drug use.

As to why this issue is important to me, my reasons are twofold. One, it has been speculated by some that an ongoing, active addiction to an illicit drug would have made Ricci more likely to have committed this crime. I have no problem with such speculation, as long as an ongoing, active addiction has been documented. Two, I don't like to see anything accepted and discussed as "fact" on here without proper documentation.

[lakey]

Possession was not in his arrest warrant. Neither was using. Even if he shot-up between his toes, the marks would be visible.

[Devil_Anse]

If Ricci had been actively using illicit drugs at the time of his arrest, it would have been easily detected. Why would it not have been reported?

I'm sure there was some "dirty" urine test--or more than one--reported by the drug-testing people to his parole officer. But having a dirty urine is certainly not the same as being caught with the stuff. They don't arrest for dirty urine, unless a person is already on probation or parole. There has to have been some sign of drug use--or his parole officer would not have included that as one of the grounds for revoking his parole. BTW, to my knowledge, they don't have good tests for alcohol use, it's hard to detect unless they actually catch the person when he's just been drinking.

As for the drugs themselves, and the syringes or whatever, I can't believe he left them lying around. He wouldn't have wanted his great friend Mrs. Morse, or for that matter, Mr. Mitchell or Angela or anyone, knowing what he was doing. Or maybe he was using some of those "prescription medicines" he said he also liked. It's easy to get Lortab, for example--Utah Girl has discussed with me on these threads how dentists prescribe that for just anyone. It's a narcotic, I'm pretty sure, ask her. Then there was Soma in the house--not narcotic, but a nice high.

[Devil_Anse]

Where is the arrest warrant? I'd like to read it, seems the only documents on Ricci that are out on the web are the indictments, and not even all of them.

[Devil_Anse]

Heroin can also be snorted, smoked, or squirted up the nose if mixed with liquid.

[lakey]

Oh, yeah, JG, digging under a trailer for all the world to see, in broad daylight no less, is just exactly what Ricci would have done after kidnapping Elizabeth, driving out in the toolies to dispose of her body - in how long did you say - 3 hours 40 minutes?

Why would he have waited till he returned home to dispose of the gun? Why wouldn't he have thrown it out in the desert?

As I asked you before, when did this late-blooming sex pervert have time to have "fun" with her?

[Sherlock]

The Smart's were covering for LE. It was LE's decision not to bring in Boylan:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,56167,00.html

COLMES: David, you know, Marc Klaas, Polly's father, has been on this program a couple of times, said he wanted to bring in a particular profiler, Jeanne Boylan, who profiled the Unabomber and a number of other people, including the abductor of his child, and that he did not meet with a favorable reception.

Was there a sense on your part whether this would be a good idea to bring in this particular profiler who might be able to help?

FRANCOM: We have had so many people call up and offer their services and offer their advice and tips and clues, and we have turned every single one of those over to the police and to the law enforcement, and we want them to handle every aspect of it.

We don't want to go down a different avenue that may, in fact, negatively impact what the police are doing. We have confidence that they're doing what they need to be doing, and so, you know, whether somebody offers their services or not, we appreciate that, but we are turning it over to the police and let them make that decision.

COLMES: He was saying that he said that he wanted to do it, but the family, indeed, got in the way. It was the family who did not want this particular profiler to be involved.

FRANCOM: My understanding is that we have no knowledge of who would be the best profiler or not, and that's why we are asking the police to use their experience and their understanding as to who would be the best one in this case and who they should use.

DUMKE: We want someone that will work with the police and that they have a good relationship. I think it's very important. We don't want to meddle in this investigation and ruin something, that we need to be sure that we need to follow their protocol and how they want things done.

[Devil_Anse]

I think if Ricci had had an unlimited source of heroin--which of course would require lots and lots of money--and had just used it freely, he wouldn't have been able to hold his job even for the month or 6 weeks that he did, and I don't think he'd have been up for burglary, abduction, or anything else.

Like most people stuck with this stuff as a craving, I imagine he used when he could afford it. I have wondered if someone at Neth's might have been a source, and if Ricci would periodically put up his jeep for "security" to get heroin which he would then pay for as soon as he got the money.

You know what? In that 29-yr rap sheet, I don't recall reading of any charges of possession of any drug. He apparently managed to not ever get caught with anything. Does this, to you, indicate that he never illegally used drugs?

[Sherlock]

If drug paraphenalia had been found in the Ricci trailer, automobiles, or Jeep, you can bet it would have been reported.

Not if LE thought it would detract from their case.

[Devil_Anse]

About facts w/o proper documentation, sometimes people are trying to prove a negative, such as prove there was no gun. I don't see how you can prove there was no gun.

I just look at all the info from the media, and try to pick the most likely thing. In the case of the gun, though it's been reported more than once, it's seldom been elaborated on. I tend to doubt there was really a gun, just as you do, but I know I couldn't prove that there was no gun, from what we have to look at.

[lakey]

All of us would like to read a number of legal items pertaining to Ricci's arrest, home search, etc. With his death, & if Angela doesn't start "making waves," we may never see any of them.

[Devil_Anse]

How about involvement in transporting, selling, or producing illegal drugs? (Marijuana, methamphetamine lab, "mule" to carry cocaine or heroin, etc.)

The idea that Ricci was involved in the above is one of the few good non-Elizabeth explanations for why he steadfastly refused to tell where the jeep was, and why he so strenuously denied taking it out of Neth's.

[lakey]

I presume you are speaking of Salt Lake City PD...seems to me they have detracted from their own case, & are rushing to get their act together before the FBI names names.