Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/17/02 to ???

ROTFL!!

Yes, I saw that headline about the girl drinking water. Planned to read that one! Must be a strange tale.

I don't think the discussion on the pj's was anything but to point out that she was after all a normal teen-ager and it was not intended to make her appear "slutty".

I disagree. Varina and others have been on a mission since these threads started trying to smear the Smarts - all of them.

I think the top of my head is going to blow off reading the pj's and nail polish speculation.

The same kooks you are talking about - you know the Ricci lovers on this thread - are the very same ones who were touting a "poll" on one of the Westerfield threads which indicated 90% of the participants thought Westerfield was innocent. If I were one of them I would hang my head in shame after the news that came out of San Diego today about a Westerfield plea bargain underway when the body was found. These people are INCREDIBLY STUPID, yet they rant and rave about the virtues of the Riccis. PATHETIC. And we are supposed to be tolerant of such stupidity - yeah, right!

Now you're really talking like a jerk. I haven't heard anyone blaming Elizabeth for her disappearance -- no matter what she wore, etc.

This is funny, I remember all kinds of posts from you that she probably used the internet, that her hormomes are active at 14 and other innuendos leading up to your point that she took off with a boyfriend.

Too many closed minds and too many posters pretending they don't "understand" the realities of life.

Do you think Westerfield killed the little Van Dam girl?

A question would be, why do they go about tearing down a religion based on known lies, whether it be lies about your church or other churches?

There have been false doctrine and false teachers since the church started. The same heresies exist today. There were false teachers that followed the Apostle Paul around and when he would leave town they would go in and say the Apostle Paul was a false teacher and work to convert them to their doctrines. This is why the books of Galatians & I Corinthians were written, John in his small books talked about false teachers, Jude is written about the damnation of heretics and fallen angels, etc. etc.

The Apostle Paul stated in Galatians that even if an angel come and teach any gospel other than what they had received from him, let him be accursed (anathema, eternally damned) and for emphasis he repeated it. Jesus railed on the religious leaders and told them they would receive the greatest damnation. This mamby pamby Sunday School view of Jesus walking around carrying a sheep under one arm and patting the little children on the head is not a scriptural. We are called to defend the faith, there is only one way to heaven and the eternal future souls lie in the balance. There's a heaven to gain and a hell to be shunned. False religion is Satan's greatest tool because man has an innate need to worship something, and if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. I am always amazed that when people reject the truth, there is no limit to what they will believe.

This is funny, I remember all kinds of posts from you that she probably used the internet, that her hormomes are active at 14 and other innuendos leading up to your point that she took off with a boyfriend.

So? That still is NOT blaming Elizabeth for wanting to leave.

I am willing to at least consider the worst in any person known in this investigation, just as a hypothesis for the purpose of trying to understand what really happnened.

You are no doubt a paragon of piety. Why do you care what I think? My gut feeling is that the real answer here isn't one that many on the thread will consider. And even if it proved to be true, they would be in full denial.

I cant believe people can complain that she was taken because of her religion but we cant blame other girls that are missing because of their parents life style. If anything maybe that is what needs to be really looked at is her parents life style. Parents are suppose to protect there children at all cost, why wasnt elizabeth protected.

Very good points, scardkat. I truly do NOT believe the LDS religion had anything at all to do with the disappearance of Liz. I believe human frailty might be a key. And yes, parents are supposed to protect their children from all harmful things, at home and away from home, whenever possible.

where did you get your info that Ashley Pond had sex so many times?....that is an astounding statement..

Back to Lizzie.....My impression of her is that her parents were very lucky to have her...she seemed like a very nice girl and I actually liked the idea that she shared a room with her little sister....that speaks to her character.....and to do well in anything demands discipline and a good attitude ...she must have had both...

If she had silk pajamas, someone probably bought them for her like her mom...

poor kid.....I like what I read somewhere on another forum....taking Lizzie was like taking a lamb, she was so quiet, so docile apparently....the "silence of the lamb"......

Let me just begin by saying there is nothing sinister about the temple and its ceremonies. The ceremonies are sacred, and I will not discuss them, but there is nothing sinister in them. And warning, my response is going to be long. I've tried to keep the statements from the post Palladin found in quotes. My responses will be below them.

Mormon temple rites are the most sacred (and secret) elements within the LDS faith.

President Hugh B. Brown has said:

"Sometimes our friends have asked what do we do in the temples. While there is nothing secret about what goes on in the temple, it is sacred and some things are so sacred that we do not discuss them except in holy places." (The Abundant Life, p.133)

Elder Bruce R. McConkie has taught:

"Ordinances performed in the Lord's sanctuaries, though not secret, are of such a sacred nature as to be reserved for the eyes and ears and hearts of those only whose attained spiritual maturity prepares them to receive the mysteries of the kingdom. Temple ordinances, whether ancient or modern, are not published to the world; their sacred nature witnesses that they should not be bandied about by brutish persons; that which is spiritual and sacred must not be held up to mockery or be made the object of raillery by carnal men. We can, however, speak in general terms of what is done in temples; we can name the ordinances and tell their purpose and intent; and we can quote from the scriptures such passages as speak in guarded and reserved terms of those things which are reserved for the faithful only." ( The Mortal Messiah, Vol.1, p.104 - p.105)

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This is partly because they are quite bizarre and heavily influenced by Masonry and occult doctrines.

(I borrowed from the following article, put the parts in that I think would answer the question. You can follow the link to read the whole article.)

How can the Mormon temple be inspired when it contains Masonic elements?

Students of both Mormonism and Freemasonry have pondered possible relationships between Masonic rites and the LDS temple ceremony. Although some argue that Joseph Smith borrowed elements of Freemasonry in developing the temple ceremony, the Endowment is more congruous with LDS scriptures (especially the book of Abraham and the Book of Moses) and ancient ritual than with Freemasonry. Latter-day Saints view the ordinances as a revealed restoration of ancient temple ceremony and only incidentally related to Freemasonry. The two are not antithetical, however, nor do they threaten each other, and neither institution discourages research regarding the ancient origins of their two ceremonies.

Many sacred ceremonies existed in the ancient world. Modified over centuries, these rituals existed in some form among ancient Egyptians, Coptic Christians, Israelites, and Masons, and in the Catholic and Protestant liturgies. Common elements include the wearing of special clothing, ritualistic speech, the dramatization of archetypal themes, instruction, and the use of symbolic gestures. One theme common to many-found in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, the Egyptian pyramid texts, and Coptic prayer circles, for example-is man's journey through life and his quest, following death, to successfully pass the sentinels guarding the entrance to eternal bliss with the gods. Though these ceremonies vary greatly, significant common points raise the possibility of a common remote source.

The Egyptian pyramid texts, for example, feature six main themes: (1) emphasis on a primordial written document behind the rites; (2) purification (including anointing, lustration, and clothing); (3) the Creation (resurrection and awakening texts); (4) the garden (including tree and ritual meal motifs); (5) travel (protection, a ferryman, and Osirian texts); and (6) ascension (including victory, coronation, admission to heavenly company, and Horus texts). Like such ancient ceremonies, the LDS temple Endowment presents aspects of these themes in figurative terms. It, too, presents, not a picture of immediate reality, but a model setting forth the pattern of human life on earth and the divine plan of which it is part.

Masonic ceremonies are also allegorical, depicting life's states-youth, manhood, and old age-each with its associated burdens and challenges, followed by death and hoped-for immortality. There is no universal agreement concerning when Freemasonry began. Some historians trace the order's origin to Solomon, Enoch, or even Adam. Others argue that while some Masonic symbolism may be ancient, as an institution it began in the Middle Ages or later.

Though in this dispensation the LDS Endowment dates from Kirtland and Nauvoo, Latter-day Saints believe that temple ordinances are as old as man and that the essentials of the gospel of Jesus Christ, including its necessary ritual and teachings, were first revealed to Adam. These saving principles and ordinances were subsequently revealed to Seth; Noah; Melchizedek; Abraham, and each prophet to whom the priesthood was given, including Peter. Latter-day Saints believe that the ordinances performed in LDS temples today replicate rituals that were part of God's teachings from the beginning.

Resemblances between the two rituals are limited to a small proportion of actions and words; indeed, some find that the LDS Endowment has more similarities with the Pyramid texts and the Coptic documents than with Freemasonry. Even where the two rituals share symbolism, the fabric of meanings is different. In addition to creation and life themes, one similarity is that both call for the participants to make covenants. Yet, the Endowment alone ties covenants to eternal blessings and to Jesus Christ. The Masonic ceremony does not emphasize priesthood or the need to be commissioned by God to represent him. The active participation of God in the world and in men's lives is a distinctly LDS temple motif. While Masons believe in an undefined, impersonal God, everything in the LDS Endowment emanates from, or is directed to, God who is a personage and man's eternal Father. The Endowment looks to the eternities and to eternal lives, but Freemasonry is earthbound, pervaded by human legend and hope for something better.

Freemasonry is a fraternal society, and in its ritual all promises, oaths, and agreements are made between members. In the temple Endowment all covenants are between the individual and God. In Freemasonry, testing, grading, penalizing, or sentencing accords with the rules of the fraternity or membership votes. In the Endowment, God alone is the judge. Within Freemasonry, rank and promotions are of great importance, while in the LDS temple rites there are no distinctions: all participants stand equal before God. The clash between good and evil, including Satan's role, is essential to, and vividly depicted in, the Endowment, but is largely absent from Masonic rites. Temple ceremonies emphasize salvation for the dead through vicarious ordinance work, such as baptism for the dead; nothing in Masonic ritual allows for proxies acting on behalf of the dead. Women participate in all aspects of LDS temple rites; though Freemasonry has women's auxiliaries, Masonic ritual excludes them. The Endowment's inclusion of females underscores perhaps the most fundamental difference between the two rites: LDS temple rites unite husbands and wives, and their children, in eternal families. Latter-day Saint sealings would be completely out of place in the context of Masonic ceremonies.

Thus, Latter-day Saints see their temple ordinances as fundamentally different from Masonic and other rituals and think of similarities as remnants from an ancient original.

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heavily influenced by Masonry and occult doctrines.

I will assume they are talking about pentagrams, which today are associated with the occult. The Salt Lake Temple does have pentagrams embedded in it. Symbols have no power in and of themselves for either good or evil. The power of a symbol comes from what it represents to the user. This means there is no such thing as a good symbol or a bad symbol. The goodness or badness comes from what the symbol represents to the user and how it influences his or her thoughts and actions. All symbols used by Latter-day Saints are used to help us center our faith in Jesus Christ.

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This is so much the case that many LDS people are so startled by the rituals to the point of not returning - ever.

Note that there is no backup of this statement. The temple is different than the world, it is meant to symbolize things of eternity and of God. I do think preparation for going to the temple for the first time is much, much better than it was for my father, for example. We now have temple preparation classes, where the things that can be discusses outside the temple are talked about. As far as "a lot of people never going back", no. I do know that is the center thesis of the guy who made that movie "The Godmakers."

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Having said that, contrary to 19th century sensational reports, in the normal temple ceremony, there is nothing improper going on (other than occult foolishness). However, especially in the Salt Lake temple, there have been numerous, credible allegations of very strange rituals going on in the temple either after hours or in the deep bowels of the subbasements of the temple.

I have personally interviewed two people, a woman and an adolescent boy who allege that they were taken into the temple subbasements, which run several levels deep. Here they report being forced to participate in rituals which are more overtly luciferian in character. These rites, remarkably similar in the way they were described, include sexual magic, blood sacrifice, and homosexuality.

Neither interviewee alleged that there was anyone murdered, just that blood was spilt ritually and sprinkled on the participants. Supposedly, very high Mormons (apostles, etc.) were present and in their temple robes.

Um, nonsense. Again, note how the author says there are "many credible accounts", doesn't mention any of them, except the two people he allegedly interviewed.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does NOT believe in blood sacrifice, we don't not believe in sexual magic, and certainly, President Hinckley and other latter day LDS prophets have come out very strongly against homosexuuality (love the sinner, hate the sin.) They do not preach one thing to the general membership, and then go and do something totally antithetical to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

And I will quote from Dr Robert Millet, a professor of religion at BYU. This is exactly how I feel.

"I will answer this [question about the supposed "secret world of Mormonism"] in a rather personal way. I have been a Latter-day Saint all my life. I was raised as a Latter-day Saint in Louisiana, and most of my friends were Roman Catholic or Protestant (Southern Baptist or Methodist). I spent my first eighteen years in Louisiana. I have since lived in New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Idaho, Florida, Georgia, and Utah, and I have been intimately involved in the work of the Church through the years. Since 1973 I have been employed by the LDS Church as a marriage and family counselor, seminary and institute of religion instructor, and dean of Religious Education and professor of Ancient Scripture at Brigham Young University. I have seen the Church from all sides--from right to left, and from top to bottom. I have worked closely with rank-and-file members and with Church leaders at all levels of administration. In all that time I have never encountered but one brand of Mormonism--the public version. I'm not sure where the secret brand--the one advertised by our critics as scheming, mischievous, power hungry, occultish, and dark--is to be found, but I haven't come across it. The reader would do well to be discerning and discriminating when it comes to some of the rather exotic assaults upon the LDS Church by its critics." (The Mormon Faith: A New Look at Christianity)
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He replied in the most serious tone that this vision was true and that Lucifer was worshipped in the innermost circles of the temple. Smiling, he told my wife that this was evidence that she was obviously an "elect lady."
Both of us were then told by him that if we moved out to Utah, Sharon might be eligible to serve in a "special" capacity in temple service. But this would only happen if we were true and faithful to our covenants, he said, and if we kept this secret and never, discussed it with anyone except a general authority of the church.
Lucifer is NOT worshipped in the innermost circles of the temple. As far as a "special" capacity in temple service, no. My parents are temple workers, they rotate through whatever they are assigned to do on the days they work there. Nothing "special" or "secret" or "occult" about it.
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The point of this account? Well, from this and other reports and experiences too numerous to recount, it appears that - like in any secret society - there are layers of knowledge in Mormonism. Some LDS are "in the know," especially in Utah. These LDS, often from old pioneer families, have access to more occult knowledge and power than 98% of the rest of the church. They know secrets of Druidism and other ancient Crafts.
I want a refund, I'm not in the "know", my family lines stretch back to Nauvoo on my father's side, and we're an "old" Utah family. /sarcasm
The LDS church and the temple are not a secret society. Anyone who is a worthy member of the LDS church is eligible to go to the temple and participate in the ceremonies. And the ceremonies are the same for everyone. I just love how "only 2% of the LDS know the secret." How convenient, so if I don't know the "secret", then obviously, I'm not a member of the elite 2%. And the catch is: No one is.
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Women from these families, and their teenaged kids, are used in the temple in some way very similar to the sexual magick practiced in high Masonry and Illuminism. I am not saying that these young people are necessarily being sexually abused, except in a broad sense. But they are being used as channels of occult power!
Young people (age 12 and up) can go to the temple to do baptisms for the dead. The other ordinances and ceremonies are for when young men and women go on their LDS missions, when a couple gets married, and when we do the endowment ceremonies in proxy for those who have died. The only other time that children and teenagers are in the temple is when they are sealed to their parents in the sealing ceremony (if the parents weren't married in the temple, or if a child is adopted.)
Again, no occult powers are used in the temple, nor in anything to do with the LDS church. We believe in Jesus Christ and in God, the Eternal Father.
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In the light of this, it is possible that Elizabeth Smart has vanished into the bowels of the temple. She is an example of the ideal Mormon "master race" (blonde, blue-eyed, talented). She might have been tapped for this "great honor," almost like a Catholic girl a century ago being sent to the convent.
Mormon "master race"??? Like the Nazis? No. We believe that all brothers and sisters, are children of one God. Race, ethnicity, color of skin, gender, does not matter, we are all children of our Heavenly Father, and he loves us equally. There is no preferential treatment for one set of people over another.
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Add to this the allegations of homosexuality on the part of her dad and uncle, it is possible that they are in on the ruse. Being gay is very wrong in Mormonism, unless you are doing it in the temple in a magick rite!
I won't go through the allegations against the Smart men again, we've hashed that out ad nauseum. And again, ancient prophets and latter-day prophets have said that homosexuality is wrong. We love the person, we abhor the sin. And there are no "magic" rites in the temple involving homosexuality. NONE. (I sure wish this guy would spell magic right.)
The reason we believe homosexuality is wrong, indeed all manners of sex outside the marriage covenant is wrong. And I will just quote from The Family: A Proclamation to the World . I urge everyone to click on the link and read the whole proclamation.

...The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God's commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.
We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God's eternal plan.

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If this is true, and there is - of course - no solid evidence that it is true, then Elizabeth would be just the latest girl to be "sacrificed" on the altar of Mormonism. Joseph Smith, Jr., the founder of the LDS church, took a girl about the same age as the Smart child as his first plural wife. Her name was Fanny Alger. Another one of his wives as the exact age as the Smart girl, 14! Her name was Helen M. Kimball.
Ah yes, polygamy. Polygamy was practiced and even encouraged by leaders of the Church between about 1840 and 1890, when it was officially ended. LDS scriptures (Jacob 2:30 in the Book of Mormon) say that polygamy is normally forbidden unless commanded by God. For the period of about 1840 to 1890, polygamy was practiced by a minority of members of the Church under direction of Church leaders, in response to revelation from God. I'm not sure of the age of Fanny Alger, I think she was around 16 or so. As for Helen Kimball, I don't know, the only known polygamous marriage was between Fanny Alger and Joseph Smith.
As an aside: Mark Twain assumed polygamy was all about lust for women, and thought the Utah men were scoundrels - until he visited Utah and saw what the rough, tough pioneer women looked like. Then he praised Mormon men as being true saints.
You can read some articles on polygamy in the early LDS church. Here are some links.
Plural Marriage (from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism)
Review of In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith by Alma G. Allred
History of Plural Marriage
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Though it is well-concealed, the LDS faith is a highly sexualized religion. It is founded on principles of an "eternal increase of seed." It is similar to an ancient fertility cult.
Yes, we are urged as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to multiply and replenish the earth when we marry. And we do believe in eternal life, that when we are married the temple, we are married for time and all eternity. And we are promised eternal increase, which includes spirit children. How those spirit children will be created, I do not know, and that has not been revealed to us, not surprising, seeing how the world treats sexuality. Again, read the Proclamation on the Family to see how we as members view sexuality and procreation of children.
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If this is true, where is Elizabeth Smart? It is hard to imagine, in this day and age, that it was the original intention to have girls disappear forever into temple service. Such "vanishings" in the clannish world of Mormonism would be noticed.
The norm, as we understand it, would be for her to go to the temple for "worship" occasionally and then return to her family. However, it is possible that she was terrified and demoralized by finding out what was expected of her in the temple and "lost it." LDS kids are raised to be highly moral, and the cognitive dissonance between her upbringing and the secret rites of the temple might have been too much for her.
She may have had to be restrained or (God forbid) even killed to keep the secrets of worship within the temple. Possibly she was even accidentally hurt or killed trying to get away. The LDS leadership guards its secrets very jealously.
What hyperbole. Where do I begin? Again, temple "service" for teenage girls just does not happen. The only ordinance that teenage girls (and boys) may partake of in the temple is baptism for the dead. I went several times when I was a teenager, never more than once a year.
And again, the LDS church does not teach a doctrine to everyone, and then reserve "special" doctrine for those chosen few. The gospel and doctrines of Jesus Christ are open to ALL who will listen, and obey.
As far as the LDS leadership guarding its "secrets" very jealously, they cannot hide from God. He knows what is in their hearts, and it had better be according to His doctrine, and what they are preaching. NOTE: I am not saying the leaders of the LDS church have anything to hide, they do not.
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And her parents? Well, if they are good Mormons, especially temple LDS, then they have sworn dire oaths to keep the secrets of the temple and not to speak anything which would cause reproach to the church. They also swore to the Law of Consecration, which means that everything that is theirs belongs to the Church. This certainly could be interpreted to include their daughter.
Do you have blood oaths in the temple?

Latter-day Saints don't discuss some aspects of the temple outside of its holy walls. It's not because these aspects are secret, but because the teachings of the temple are sacred to us. Enemies of the Church often take advantage of us because they know we are somewhat limited in what we can say about the temple. However, while I won't discuss the details of our temple teachings, I can make a few appropriate comments that should address this issue.
First, no threat of any kind is ever made against persons breaking their temple covenants....

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Our prayer is that Elizabeth is still alive and that in fact we are wrong about all this. However, there is circumstantial evidence that the Church (which has powerful influence over the police in Utah as well) may well have her. In any event, she is a tragic casualty of our nation's slide into un-Biblical chaos. Our children may well be paying the price for our neglect of God and His Word. More than ever, we need to pray for our children and our nation!
My prayer is also that Elizabeth is still alive. The man who wrote the post IS wrong about all the slander, smears, and lies he has perpetuated against the LDS church. Circumstantial evidence that the LDS church and/or its leaders are involved in Elizabeth's disappearance? Not from the post he wrote, and most certainly if a person who holds a calling in the LDS church was responsible for her abduction, he will pay in this life and in the next for what he did.
As far as the rest of this guy's statement, he accuses the Smarts, the LDS church of doing dire things to Elizabeth, then says she is a tragic casualty of "our nation's slide into un-Biblical chaos." And yes, we do need to pray more for our children, and for our nation.
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Footnotes: Great footnotes, just suppositions and very few links.
1. O'Reilly Factor (TV program), FOX News channel, 7/16/02.
Don't know what he is talking about here, there is no [1] reference in this post.
2. See MORMONISM'S TEMPLE OF DOOM by Bill Schnoebelen and Jim Spencer> (1987) for a full discussion of this, amply documented.
OK, I think the guy who wrote this post was Bill Schoebelen, I did a search on his name and the article, found his webpage, he was in a satanic cult, then joined the LDS church, then was saved. Okie dokie. I'll let you all do your own searches, I'm not giving this guy a whole bunch of hits on his website.
3. For a fuller discussion of this, see the video GODMAKERS II. They are talking about the bowels and sub basements here, I assume. Haven't seen the either Godmakers movie and plan never to. If you would like to read reviews and statements about the films, go to the link. Reviews of the Godmakers movie. If you want to read about the Godmakers films, do your own search, I won't post a link to those movies and give Ed Decker the satisfaction of getting hits on his web of lies.
4. Sealing here means a special LDS wedding rite in which a couple are sealed for "time and eternity," a marriage held to be forever and to give "eternal increase of seed." Absolutely correct.
5. In the church, apostles are at the top of the hierarchy. There are 12 apostles, plus two counselors and the Prophet (each also apostles). For the record, we met with Elder James Faust.
6. PAY-LAY-ALE was in the temple rites for over a century. Supposedly, in the ancient Adamic language, it means "O God, hear the words of my mouth." The gesture with it is almost identical to the Grand Masonic Hailing Sign of Distress, Several Christian scholars demonstrated that the words could be translated in fractured Hebrew as "Marvelous Lucifer" or "Marvelous [false] god." This is one of several elements in the temple rite which were mysteriously removed in 1991 after the publication of our TEMPLE OF DOOM book in 1987 and Chuck Sackett's outstanding work, WHAT'S GOING ON IN THERE? earlier.
It is true that copies of the temple ceremonies have been stolen from the Church. These copies are used by competing religious groups to either attack the Church or taunt and bait Latter-day Saints, to whom the temple ceremonies are sacred. It is also true that some sites on the internet have posted these documents [many of which have been altered to suit the purposes of our critics].
Let's begin by stating that not only have changes been made to temple ceremonies in the past, but many more will be made in the future. The idea that the temple ceremonies are not supposed to change is a false doctrine. The truth does not change, but how the truth [or how much of it] is taught may be.
Changes to the temple ceremonies
7. A decade after this interview, a news story exploded about widespread Satanic abuse in the LDS church in the Salt Lake region. A report, issued by Bishop Pace, a presiding bishop of the whole church, indicated that there appeared to be more than 800 cases of children being abused in church settings, by high level church officials and even members of the celebrated Tabernacle Choir. Since then, the story has been allowed to quietly die.
Another hit and run smear. In what newspaper did this story appear? I do not remember reading anything about 800 LDS children being involved in abuse, etc in the 1980s. I think this would be a BIG story.
Did a fair amount of research on this one, I can't find the original report, but there is a website referring to Satanic ritual abuse that quotes from the report "LDS Church Report to the Strengthening Church Members Committee" by Bishop Glenn L Pace written in 1990. The site references 60 people who have been Satanically abused (57 female 7 male.) NO mention of church affiliation. Here is the website in case you are interested. Ritual Abuse Statistics & Research. The rest of the websites I went to referred to this article by Bishop Pace, but didn't quote from it, or give links to it. Again, a story of that magnitude just could not be buried. And you all can do your own searches, I won't dignify some of those websites with links for more hits.
8. Todd Compton, IN SACRED LONELINESS, Signature Books, 1998, p. 487. In Sacred Loneliness

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Well, I spent waaaay too much time on this little project. Any mistakes are mine, please ask if you have questions. I know I missed some questions in the post. I do appreciate Palladin asking me and other members of the LDS church about this post, so many times people go to the critics and haters of the LDS church to find answers.

You are welcome. I just went ahead last night and copied the names of everyone who has been participating the last week or so on these threads.

Good link, non-judgemental information about the LDS church and its history. Not so sure about the links down at the bottom, but that is their perogative.

Gee, that article didn't even mention the forced water-drinking rituals so common in the Sunday Schools....
Now, you know it'll lose its spice 'n' flavour if we have it all at once. Save some for later.
By the way, the daddy of all conspiracy theorists? I nominate Joseph Stalin. And he didn't just talk about it.

Oops. Thank you for including me.

My point is that there is plenty of room to disagree about the particular doctine of a church without resorting to the publishing of lies, part truths etc. What does that prove?

I heard a catholic bishop from sweden say that there were three things you should do to learn about another religion. 1. Go directly to that religion to learn about it. 2. Compare your worst against their best. 3. Leave room in your heart for holy envy. While I don't totally agree with his formula I do agree with the underlying premise of being humble and teachable.

By the way, thanks for your thoughts on this!

Go to the Religion section to read all you ever wanted to know about Catholicism. This religion has staunch apologists, who start about 30 threads every day here on FR on every aspect of the Faith. They are far more educated and eloquent than I can ever hope to be. You will find answers to your listed questions there. If there's anything else you want to know, just ping sinkspur, siobhan, salvation, eastsider, howlingly mindbending absurdity, or any of the other faithful Catholics who post there daily.

However, none of it is relevant to the Eliz Smart case, as she and her family are not Catholic.