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Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/17/02 to ???

Posted on 09/16/2002 11:10:48 PM PDT by Utah Girl

Just thought I would start a new thread.


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To: spore-gasm
That's a low blow and not funny.
381 posted on 09/20/2002 11:13:19 AM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: All
Lawmakers back plan to ban holding therapy

By James Thalman

Deseret News staff writer

A group of lawmakers barely hesitated Thursday to endorse a bill that would outlaw so-called holding therapy in Utah. The move follows the death of one child and the targeting of an Orem clinic by the Attorney General's Office.

The Child Welfare Legislative Oversight Panel unanimously approved the proposed legislation the same day that state business licensing officials announced they were targeting an Orem clinic linked to the therapy and to the June death of a 4-year-old Springville girl.

The state accused the Cascade Center for Family Growth in Orem of placing children in both physical and emotional danger by practicing coercive or holding therapy without obtaining adequate parental consent.

On Monday, child-abuse homicide and child-abuse charges were filed against the girl's adoptive Springville parents, Richard and Jennete Killpack, accusing them of forcing water down the girl's throat as punishment for taking a sibling's soft drink. The couple says it was taught the therapy by personnel at the Orem clinic.

The legislation doesn't include penalties for practicing the restraint therapy, which can involve treatments ranging from holding a child like an infant to pinning the child down to inflict pain, all in an effort to force the child to release pent up aggression and bond with adults in the process.

Sponsor Mike Thompson, R-Orem, said the Springville death is just the most recent tragic example that coercing and restraining children in the name of therapy is "deadly quackery."

He said if similar legislation he proposed during the last legislative session had been passed, the death would have been averted. That legislation, which would have prohibited licensed therapists from doing holding therapy, passed the House but was never voted on in the Senate.

The Cascade Center for Family Growth is accused by the state of practicing a physically and emotionally dangerous form of child and massage therapy. The center directors say they are being used as a scapegoat by Thompson to further his political agenda.

Thompson said his only political agenda is to keep children from being hurt under the guise of therapy. "I'm trying to protect children and parents from totally unapproved therapies. This is voodoo therapy. This is child abuse."

Although coercive therapy has never been included in traditional mental health therapies, support for it and anecdotes of miraculous recoveries abound. Therapy supporters had been invited to Thursday's meeting but none attended.

That's typical because those who offer it or participate in it always operate outside public scrutiny, said Christopher Barden, a nationally known psychiatrist and widely quoted critic of coercive therapy.

He told lawmakers the treatment shouldn't even be called therapy because labeling it as such implies it has been shown to be therapeutic.

The only evidence that it works is the worst kind — anecdotal — and it has never stood up to any kind of basic scientific review, Barden said. He likened the fervor of its supporters to those who also believed in bloodletting and leeching as a cure for physical illness, noting that George Washington died after bleeding out a quart of blood in a single day on the advice of his physician.

"I don't think these people are trying to injure, but they are shockingly ignorant and are applying that ignorance to children with terrible results," he said.

Not only does the therapy not meet even the most basic scientific criteria, it amounts to human experimentation and fraud, he added.

There are those who say they got better because of it, Barden said. "But just because an outcome and a treatment appear related doesn't mean cause and effect. That is like believing that eating dinner is what makes the sun go down in the evening."

Source --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

382 posted on 09/20/2002 11:31:14 AM PDT by Neenah
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Comment #383 Removed by Moderator

To: spore-gasm
Please, you were comparing the Killpacks and what they did to that poor little adopted girl to the Smarts. There isn't any comparison. I don't care if Ed Smart goes on national TV and monopolizes hour after hour, he is trying to find his daughter. And you equate that with someone who killed their daughter by forcing her to drink water hard enough that she had bruises and cuts around her lips.

And so what if the Smarts went on vacation? First you complain that Ed Smart is saturating the airwaves, then you say that he is throwing red herrings out to keep his face and name out of the public eye. Well, which is it?

Please, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

384 posted on 09/20/2002 11:43:21 AM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: cookiedough
"GET A GRIP"

All I know is that it is not normal to go on vacation when your daughter has been missing less than four months. A vacation to me means to forget your cares and enjoy yourself. It would be the last thing on my mind.

If you think it is normal with your "get a grip comment", fine, Obviously, we disagree.

God gives us a special duty as parents to care and nuture our children and I can't comprehend going on vacation during the time a child is missing. Money can be spent on detectives to help find Elizabeth. If Ed and Lois asked the other children rather they would want the money spent on a vacation or on helping to find Elizabeth, I wonder what they would say.

385 posted on 09/20/2002 12:12:59 PM PDT by FR_addict
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To: All
It's starting to look like at least one of Elizabeth's parents has NOT been on vacation. Check Neenah's post above, about info that Lois has been interviewed by the FBI for three hours, very recently.

As for Ricci's autopsy, I, too, would like to hear what it says. I'm sure the Smarts do not have access to it; I'm sure Angela Ricci does.
386 posted on 09/20/2002 1:15:15 PM PDT by Devil_Anse
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To: Devil_Anse; All
Officials say Elizabeth Smart rumor is false

      Local authorities are denying rumors reported on television that placed 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart in Yuma County, Ariz.

      According to the rumor, an individual approached the Salt Lake Police Department saying "Elizabeth is living in Arizona and is pregnant," Salt Lake Police Sgt. Fred Louis said. "There is no validity to that statement."

      According to the FBI, Salt Lake police told them the rumor was false.

      "The only thing we've been told is someone sent a photo up to the police department asking if that matched the description of Elizabeth Smart and they ruled it out as any possibility," FBI special agent George Dougherty said.

387 posted on 09/20/2002 1:44:27 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Devil_Anse; All
Police reviewing clues in Elizabeth Smart case

      Salt Lake police have been going back over early clues in the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping, and they interviewed Elizabeth's mother last week. They have been going back through a list of people the family knew in hopes of finding new clues in the 3 1/2-month-old kidnapping.

      As part of their plan to go back to square one and re-examine the disappearance of 14-year-old Elizabeth, police have returned to the Federal Heights neighborhood looking for more clues, said Elizabeth's father, Ed Smart.

      Smart family spokesman Chris Thomas said that within the past few weeks, police have conducted separate interviews with both of Elizabeth's parents. Lois' interview last week lasted two to three hours and was meant to help police review the family's extensive list of friends, associates and workers who knew the family or had access to their million-dollar residence.

388 posted on 09/20/2002 1:45:35 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Utah Girl
Looks like something is shaking.....what is your source?
389 posted on 09/20/2002 1:58:15 PM PDT by Neenah
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To: ChocChipCookie
I recieved on of those ad-flyers in the mail with E's picture and vital statistics on it. I live in TX.
390 posted on 09/20/2002 1:58:55 PM PDT by bonfire
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To: Neenah; All
Oops, sorry. The Deseret News, you know, the one Tom Smart works for.
391 posted on 09/20/2002 1:59:05 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Utah Girl
I don't see it on the Deseret News at all. Can you give us a link for that?

Also, what tv show was talking about this? Source please.

392 posted on 09/20/2002 2:06:06 PM PDT by Neenah
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To: Utah Girl
...Also..was the tv station giving this information about Elizabeth being pregnant as "FACT" or "RUMOR" ?????

Did the tv station document it? How was it presented?

393 posted on 09/20/2002 2:12:41 PM PDT by Neenah
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Comment #394 Removed by Moderator

To: Neenah
I don't have any idea. I just posted two articles from the Deseret News, this is news to me.
395 posted on 09/20/2002 2:18:11 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: All
I just want to say a few things. I think it is unfair to judge Ed and Lois Smart because they might be taking a trip to get away for a few days. To those of you critizing them whether it be for appearing on TV too often or not enough, for saying the wrong things, for not searching harder and not mourning longer, or for going away for a rest. It makes no difference what they do anyway, they are going to be criticized for it.

I hope all of us can rise to the occasion and appear totally professional if this burden is suddenly thrust upon us. Could we all show just the right amount of emotion, say the correct thing every time, and not smile too much? If our child is ever kidnapped, and probably raped and murdered, will some of us falter in our speech and make mistakes when we have to go before National and International TV cameras and pled for help? Would we all be up to the task?

My heart goes out to this family. I heard Lois say awhile back that their children are still sleeping in their bedroom because they are too frightened to sleep in their own rooms. This is a horrible nightmare for any family. Just be thankful that your children are safe and pray that nothing like this ever happens in your family.

I am apalled at the lies that have been printed here about the Mormon Church. It's a sad day when people feel they have to tear down and spread rumors about other people's religious beliefs. I as a Mormon can only say to those who are bewildered by these false accusations, that there is no other group of people who are more dedicated to preserving the freedoms that we have in the United States. I say this not as an old family Mormon but as a convert who investigated every aspect of the Church before accepting it.

If Elizabeth's kidnapping is ever solved, I feel confident that the person or persons responsible will be arrested and charged. I also feel very confident that it won't matter at all whether the person or persons responsible are LDS or family members, just know this, if they are identified, they will be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible and punished according to the law of the land.
396 posted on 09/20/2002 2:27:47 PM PDT by Yellowcat
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To: Utah Girl
Yeah, I have so much free time that I made this up.

UG...calm down! I asked politely a ligitimate question, did I not? I did NOT say you made it up, did I ?

Remember when you left the board some time back? Remember how you felt? Did I write a very nice letter to you to encourage you? Now you come out with gloves on because I ask you a question about something you posted, and you are insinuating that I was saying you made it up???

I try to source everything. I want to read it for myself, and save it. I don't like to post anything that isn't sourced. It is the right thing to do.

And UG, if something is going to happen with this case, it is going to happen regardless if YOU or I OR ANYONE including the DESERET NEWS want it to or not.

The reason I asked about the tv station, is because it is not reported nationally, and I wondered if it was a local station. Isn't that a fair question?

397 posted on 09/20/2002 2:32:35 PM PDT by Neenah
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To: Neenah
Sorry to have taken offense. I forget to take questions with a grain of salt over the Internet.
398 posted on 09/20/2002 2:36:06 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Neenah
And the question I took offense at was "I don't see it on the Deseret News at all." I posted without thinking, should have counted to ten, and deleted my statement.
399 posted on 09/20/2002 2:37:46 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Utah Girl
UG...when you told us it was in the Deseret News...I just went there to read it and save it. It was not there. I came back on to tell you, thinking that maybe the Deseret News has a internet version and a local version of the paper.

Maybe you read it in the local paper. How did I know?

Try not to take offense so quickly. I have no desire to offend anyone. I really don't have much of a desire to post much anymore for this very reason. Very sad.

400 posted on 09/20/2002 2:49:18 PM PDT by Neenah
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