Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/9/02 to ???

[stlnative]

New thread...

[lakey]

"Well, call me Chef Menteur, then!"

Just Chef Menteur? No one else? Awwww, darn.

[sandude]

About Ricci hiding the jeep, wonder how he'd get to and from its location? Strange, seems an inconvenient thing for a person to do.

Another reason why I'm sure there was an accomplice in this.

[sandude]

The Smart family (Ed, Lois, and children) will be on the new John Walsh talk show tomorrow morning on NBC. I think it comes on after the Today show.

[scaredkat]

Thanks

[scaredkat]

Im rechecking things

Does anyone know what the license plate # was that the milk man saw or thought he saw?

[Devil_Anse]

License plate number reported by milkman: He reported that the strange man in strange car, the one he saw in Smarts' neighborhood very early the morning of June 3, had a license number beginning with "266." I think that's all he could give the police about that.

Bret Edmunds had put various stolen plates on his Saturn from time to time. I'm not clear on this part of the story, but I THINK one of the plates Edmunds had on his Saturn at one time or another began with 266.

See, when the milkman reported the approximate type of car and the 1st 3 numbers of its plate, police ran all of that type of car, and none of their license plates began with 266. So somewhere in there, someone was driving a car with plates from a different type of car on it.

Sherlock knows a lot more about this license plate stuff.

[scaredkat]

Thanks

I believe those are the plates they found in the park. (ogden)

[varina davis]

You are the elephant behind the curtain. You have intimate details of every player in this case, but pretend to be just asking questions, questions that are very cleverly baited.

[scaredkat]

I found the story on Elizabeth Wieght, although she isnt mention somewhere in my research I found out her name.
The original story has been pulled.
Check it out for yourselves:

http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:SIlk_Dymfh4C:www.ktvx.com/news/article.html%3Fstory_id%3D295%26category_id%3D2+Edward+koplin+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[sandude]

About the possibility of their transferring a body, I'd think they'd have sought to make it so they had to transfer the body as few times as possible, b/c of course every time they moved it, they were taking a huge risk.

I'm in agreement here. I'm only trying to fit the pieces together in this thing. If our pig roaster had a dead body in the back of his SUV then how do you explain the mud on Ricci and his Jeep the day before. I did throw out the idea that Elizabeth might have been held in a remote cabin. We have to remember that this case became white hot because of Mary Katherine’s witnessing the abduction. I don't think the conspirators ever anticipated that. Let's go through a possible scenario. I’m not saying I think this happened, it’s just a possibility.

On the 30th of May Richard picks up the Jeep from Mouls and drives into the country where he meets up with his accomplice at a remote cabin. They leave the Jeep there and Rick’s friend drives him back to Salt Lake in the blue SUV. On the day of the crime the accomplice drives into Salt Lake in the Jeep and picks up Ricci sometime around 1:30 AM and they make the drive to Federal Heights. One of them enters the home and grabs Elizabeth not noticing that Mary Katherine has witnessed the crime. Elizabeth is subdued (drugged, whatever) and they speed away from the Smarts neighborhood. Richard is dropped off at the theme park where he reports to Angela that they got away clean. The accomplice now continues on his journey to the remote cabin hideout. Once he arrives there he puts Elizabeth into the cabin and waits to hear from Richard and Angela.

Once Richard discovers that MK witnessed the crime he is forced to start covering his tracks. After he is interviewed later that day he realizes that they may eventually focus on him and his associates and that they are going to have to get rid of Elizabeth. They can’t bury Elizabeth near the cabin because there is a tie between Richard or Angela to this property (family, friend, etc). It is also clear that the Jeep can’t be left at the cabin because it would be a certain giveaway if LE found it there. The accomplice takes the blue van and makes the trip back to Salt Lake to pick up Richard. They go back to the cabin to take care of business.

Elizabeth is wrapped in plastic and placed under a tarp in the back of the SUV this time. They have to get the Jeep back to Mouls and hope that LE never focuses on Richard and if they do then perhaps they won’t discover that the Jeep was missing for a week. As they are leaving the remote area the Jeep becomes bogged down in the mud because of the wet ground (scaredkat told us of the rain that week). Richard has to dig the Jeep out. He can’t leave it there because it’s too close to the cabin where Elizabeth was held and possibly murdered. The Jeep is muddy and so is Richard as he returns the vehicle to Moul. The man in the blue van takes care of burying the body the next day.

This little exercise is just that. I’m trying to fit the pieces together into a plausible scenario. Many things could vary in the above scenario but the overall theme is that Richard, the Jeep, an accomplice, and a blue van are all tied into this crime. Elizabeth was apparently buried either the 8th or 9th of June. If this is true then may God rest her soul.

[lakey]

I remember the case but not the names. Thanks.

[Devil_Anse]

I still don't understand Edmunds' relation to this case, and I don't see where anyone else does, either. The police know why they went after him with nationwide alerts, though. Why such a feverish pursuit??

Edmunds has other convictions as well, besides the burglary one from Manti. Check out the articles saved on brigette's website, especially the ones listed under the date of June 12, in the News Report Archives.

[landerwy]

Definite possibility.

[Devil_Anse]

Well, when you put all that together, there is certainly a tight limit to the number of possible explanations for why Ricci would not tell about where the jeep was.

One thing, though. I think Ricci and his lawyer didn't believe that their giving a full account of the jeep whereabouts would really get the police off his back about the abduction--even if Ricci came up with the most plausible story he could possibly tell (or make up.) I think they had good reason for not believing that this would not get the police off his back about the abduction. IMO, the police almost never really want to talk to someone in order to clear that person. They almost always want to talk to a person to gather evidence against that person. I'm not saying they wanted to set Ricci up, I'm saying that if they really don't have much to link a person to a crime, they will admit that to themselves and not waste time. They kept after Ricci.

What if Ricci had already fed his story of "a stranger took my jeep out of Neth's" to some FBI agent in an interview (before Ricci's counsel stepped in)? Then, if Ricci changed the story, even changing it to something truthful, the FBI's got his earlier lie, and they could charge him with lying to them.

"As hot as this case was I'm sure his lawyer could have easily gotten a plea bargain for simply clearing up the questions around the Jeep."

I agree. He could have gotten something in return for clearing up the jeep-whereabouts matter once and for all. I'm just disagreeing with you on when, in Ricci's lawyer's judgment, it would have been the best time for Ricci to play this card. The new cases, bank robbery, Adams burglary, Smart theft, had not gotten far enough along in court for there to be a plea bargain, IMO.

It's also possible that some deal WAS in the works. Remember the rumors we heard about that, shortly after the public defenders took over? The police could put out the story that Ricci was still stonewalling, just to unsettle him. They could have put out this story even if it wasn't true, even if Ricci through his lawyer was attempting to offer an explanation of the jeep's whereabouts. They have to resort to tactics like this, they are somewhat restricted in what they can do to people to make them talk. They can't use brute force, so they have developed all sorts of other tricks.

As for turning in someone else who Ricci might have known used the jeep for some other crime, Ricci had been in prison enough to know that if he ratted someone out, he'd have to be looking over his shoulder literally every time he moved inside the prison. He would know that that person could find a way to get him, eventually. Some felons won't snitch no matter what, and that's why.

The whole thing with Ricci just casually leaving his jeep at Neth's for weeks at a time, not to mention the very strange thing of pulling it out b/f it was ready and bringing it back, is just bonkers. I don't get any of it. If you were hard up for money, and the mechanic had fixed your jeep enough for it to run 500-1000 miles, would you bother to take it back in just for an oil change or something? Wouldn't you instead just drive it till it broke down again? I would. Something was up with this bizarre business of leaving the jeep there, like the jeep lived at the mechanic's and just came out for "emergencies."

Oh Gawd. I just thought of something. Suppose Ricci had taken out a loan, perhaps one of those pawn-your-car-title loans. Suppose the man who removed the jeep "surreptitiously" off Neth's lot on May 30 (if anyone wants to believe it was surreptitious) was a repossession man. [Do pawn-your-title places make people leave a key to the car along with the title? I don't know.] Suppose Ricci somehow found a way to steal the jeep back from the repo man--he wouldn't want to tell that he'd stolen it back w/o paying the loan money, right? (Of course, I've never heard of anyone being able to steal their car back once it's been repossessed!) Would a repo man have some woman call and pretend to be Mrs. Ricci, saying they'd be picking up the jeep? Yes!

[Devil_Anse]

About the story on Elizabeth Wieght

Ohhh yeah...I remember reading about this case. How old was this girl, that they thought she might be Elizabeth?
Thanks for the cite. I wish they had the death penalty for people who do what the perp in that case did.

[Devil_Anse]

Your Post 50--"Let's go through a possible scenario"

Sandude, your scenario is just too plausible. Who ever heard of anything being that logical?

Poor Elizabeth.

[scaredkat]

Hello,

On that repair shop guy, I wouldnt trust him, no way, no how! I went by that place there is noway anybody in his right mind would leave there car there to be fixed. Even if hes a good guy you just wouldnt leave it there if you wanted to make sure you got it back.

[scaredkat]

I also forgot to mention the road he is on is a very very busy road and very small. This is where I think the hole in his story is. The other car was parked where waiting for him?

[scaredkat]

Okay,

I just got out of my nine dots.
I have done alot of thinging about what I know and realize that there are somethings I didnt understand. All I can say is Chief I finally got your messages and Ill stay out of the way. Im going to keep posting, Ill just stay off those roads.