Elizabeth Smart thread, September 5, 2002-?

[varina davis]

But you must remember you are the personality type drawn to the ES forums

I was "drawn" to this forum (am on no others), because of fascination with the strange and weird personality and character traits of some of the posters.

[freedox]

From the Deseret News, Saturday, June 8, 2002:

"The progress we're making is probably more an elimination of things," Dinse said. "We're operating under the plan that she is still alive. That she is still operating under the control of this individual."

I just ran across this quote from Chief Dinse, and was struck by his odd choice of words. Simply being held alive in captivity is very different from "operating under the control" of someone. It immediately brought to my mind the Patty Hearst case, where there was some question about whether she was acting on her own or acting under the influence of her abductors. Why did he use the words "STILL operating under the control..."? Was Dinse suggesting that there might be a point at which it would be assumed that Elizabeth was no longer operating under the control of her abductors? A point at which she would be assumed to be acting on her own?

jen, you're the expert on this.......any thoughts?

[anatolfz]

Dum-dum is a place in India where bullets of this type were originally made.

[Devil_Anse]

"Discussion of divorce between Ed and Lois; financial problems; change of schools; moving to a new home..."

We know for sure that the last two things are accurate.
At least, if one believes media reports.

It's possible Ed and Lois were on the outs, some people feel they are distant with each other. I chalk this up to the fact that Lois just really seems tremendously shellshocked and dangerously depressed by this whole thing. Ed's the affectionate one of the pair. (Yuk.) BUT where, other than on internet forums in which posters claim to know a friend of a friend, have we ever really heard any claim that a divorce was in the works?

Financial problems? Again, this, as far as I know, is only from speculation from internet forum posters. It's a logical consideration, but I've never heard anything to back it up. In fact, look at all the vacations the Smarts have been on lately. They're reportedly on one right now. That doesn't sound to me like they have financial problems.

[Devil_Anse]

I know your post wasn't to me, but I agree with your point about Patty Hearst. Would anyone have believed that she would rob a bank? I have thought in the past that maybe Elizabeth really could be alive, with someone, and suffering from the Stockholm syndrome.

How long was it before Patty Hearst surfaced?

[varina davis]

just ran across this quote from Chief Dinse, and was struck by his odd choice of words. Simply being held alive in captivity is very different from "operating under the control" of someone.

It sounds like an enormous hint -- and perhaps a veiled warning that LE is closer to exposing whoever she is with.

[anatolfz]

odd choice of words ...
May just be unintentional repetition. He says "operating" in the previous sentence.
In general, you can't read too much into what people say offhand.

[varina davis]

ABC Channel 4 News Sept. 6, 2002 --

Smart kidnapping case hits 3 month mark

REPORTED BY SCOTT SWAN

On this three month anniversary of Elizabeth Smart’s kidnapping, the chief investigator remains hopeful. “I still believe that we will be able to solve it,” said police chief Rick Dinse during an ABC4 News exclusive interview. “I am hopeful that we will be able to locate Elizabeth, but I can’t put a time on it.”

The chief says the investigation has been scaled back with fewer detectives working on the case. Dinse says his police department is still receiving leads and is investigating each one. Dinse admits he is frustrated the case has not been solved. “This is a unique case. I have never seen one quite like that, “ said Dinse. “There are more twists and turns in this one than I have experienced in any abduction case,” added Dinse.

Chief Dinse says questions still linger about the Smart’s former handyman, 48-year old Richard Ricci, who died August 30 from a brain hemorrhage. Investigators say up to 1,000 miles on Ricci’s Jeep Cherokee are unaccounted for and want to find the man who reportedly picked up Ricci from a West Valley City repair shop three days after Elizabeth was abducted from her home at gunpoint. Chief Dinse stops short of naming Ricci the suspect in the case.

For the Smart family, waiting for an answer is difficult. “They are very strong,” says Elizabeth’s uncle David Smart when asked how Elizabeth’s siblings are coping on the three month anniversary. “They are doing well. This is a difficult thing all around,” Smart said as he fought back tears.

Elizabeth’s grandmother, Dorothea Smart says it is still hard to believe Elizabeth is gone. “I expect to have Elizabeth come bounding down from those front steps, coming right over to us and giving us a kiss,” says Smart. Elizabeth’s grandfather says the family continues to hope for a miracle. “Three months today, Elizabeth is still out there. We pray that we might be able to get her back,” says Dr. Charles Smart.

[freedox]

"In general, you can't read too much into what people say offhand."

I disagree.....strongly. The things that people say "offhand" are unguarded statements that are most likely to reveal their true thoughts. That being said, however, I don't think that Chief Dinse ever makes "offhand" statements to the press. I think his words are carefully crafted and that everything he says publicly is intended to relay a message.

[FR_addict]

I'm pretty sure I either read an article where Moul said Ricci was wearing a machette or heard him say it in an interview but it was a long time ago.

As I said before, the posters on this board cannot agree on what Moul said and didn't say. I don't see why you think Angela is lying for thinking that Moul didn't talk to Ricci when the car was returned, when we can't even agree as to what Moul said.

I'd like to see an article on this point. If Moul mentioned a machete, you should be able to come up with a link to an article or interview.

I'd rather not take your word for it at this point.

[Sherlock]

So they weren't going to get anything further from Ricci's mouth. That ended long before his death, and they knew it.

Ricci was stonewalling the police by refusing to admit he ever had the Jeep anytime from May 30 until his arrest on Jun 14. Funny there is no indication he ever called Moul to inquire about the Jeep. This denial precluded answers to the crux issues in the case, 1) what he was doing with the Jeep on Jun 8 and where he got all the mud & pine needles on it, 2) what he did with the seat covers, machette, post hole digger, and two trash bags he left Moul's with, and 3) who the 5'8", athletic man with short dark hair was that he left Moul's in a blue van with that day. The police said a long time ago they had no further plans to interview Ricci until he decided to answer these questions.

I read early in the case sometime not long before Jun 5 Ricci's parole officer had learned Ricci was ducking the drug program he was supposed to be in and he told Ricci if he didn't get back on it he was going back to prison. This means Ricci knew he was headed back to prison anyway at the time of the kidnapping.

[Sherlock]

In any case, a 12-inch knife is hardly a "machete" of note.

They may have cleared it because Moul told them it wasn't the one he saw Ricci wearing.

[Sherlock]

"operating under the control" of someone..

This was when they thought Uncle Tom Smart did it but I think they might have cleared him.

[varina davis]

They may have cleared it because Moul told them it wasn't the one he saw Ricci wearing.

Do you happen to have a source for Moul's statement about that? thanks.

[varina davis]

This was when they thought Uncle Tom Smart did it but I think they might have cleared him.

I didn't know LE ever said they thought Uncle Tom Smart did it. Do you have a source?

[Sherlock]

It sounds like an enormous hint -- and perhaps a veiled warning that LE is closer to exposing whoever she is with.

The quote is another one of your ancient dredgings, it's dated June 8!?!?

[varina davis]

The quote is another one of your ancient dredgings

Lots of interesting things are found in "ancient dredgings." That's why archaeology is important.

[Yellowcat]

You said:
I have to step in here, I come from a very strict LDS family always did what my parents wanted out of respect but I tell you when I became 13 bamm I did flirt and if you think girls dont, rethink that. I even went to rough out camp (which is a LDS girls summer camp (not a scare camp) and it was in big cottonwood canyon and there were alot of construction workers there and my girlfried and I would get up each morning and take off and go hang out with the MeN all day until it was time to sign in for dinner. My parents never knew and neither did our camp director.


ScaredKat: Until this post I thought you might be in your own way telling the truth, although I was a little bit skeptical about about whether or not you were really as uneducated as you were trying to pretend. Some of the things you have written have a ring of truth and are quite chilling.

But no, no way would a young girl be able to sneak off "every" day during a supervised LDS girls' camp to hang out with construction men "all" day! A girl (maybe?) might try it once or twice and even get by with it the first time, but not "every" day "all" day! These camps are very well supervised and the camp directors are much more compitent than that.

I do not believe you and I think you have an agenda of some kind. But if you are really legit and want people to believe you, please try to pay more attention to telling the truth next time.