Elizabeth Smart thread, September 5, 2002-?

[IamHD]

ES missing since 6-5-2002 and will have been missing for 3 months in a few hours, so I thought that this would be an approriate time to start a new thread.

[freedox]

"Your problem is, like all your friends, you start with the premise your heroin addict hero Ricci is innocent...."

Yeah, FR_addict.....get with the program here!!! Where'd you ever come up with a hairbrained idea like presumption of innocence??? Sheeeeesh.....what country are you from?

[Utah Girl]

Ed's sister, Cynthia Smart Owens is married to the son of Wayne Owens. Wayne Owens was the Democrat rep from Utah for several years, I think back in the late seventies and eighties.

[Sherlock]

presumption of innocence???

Overlooking and denying the facts in the case is not 'presumption of innocence'. You people think you're normal because you are the norm on these ES forums. But you must remember you are the personality type drawn to the ES forums but you only represent the minority of the population that never see the truth on anything.

[Sherlock]

Why do you continue to waste all your time writing all this garbage about the family. If you followed the case you would know the kidnapper was a 5'8", athletic, 30-40's, short dark hair, wearing light pants, a tan jacket, and a WHITE BASEBALL HAT. It was not Uncle Tom Smart. The kidnapper was seen by the milkman, stealing beer on a Federal Heights neighborhood convenience store security video shortly before the kidnapping, by Fred Trujillo in the Shriner's Hospital parking lot just before driving up to the house, by MK, by searchers in the incident with the gunshots, by Neth Moul across the street with his blue van, and by searchers digging a rectangular hole allegedly to roast a pig shortly after which he left in his blue SUV. When are you going to get off your Smart bashing mentality, it's pure ignorance at this point.

[freedox]

"But you must remember you are the personality type drawn to the ES forums but you only represent the minority of the population that never see the truth on anything."

LOL!!! I'd be more than happy to compare number of posts to see who seems to be more "drawn".......

[anatolfz]

Let me impart some wild-eyed speculation.

You know, this is just a lot of rubbish. If you're going to post rubbish, at least try to make it coherent. For example, what do you mean by "I do, however, think there was a lot more going on behind the scenes ...." What, exactly? What scenes? Theorizing is good, but the theory has to account for known facts — not produce new, unheard-of rumouroids. I don't mean to be offensive, but gosh! Enuff already.

[Sherlock]

FAMILY MARKS 3 MONTHS SINCE HER ABDUCTION

Friday, September 6, 2002

BY ASHLEY BROUGHTON
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

The grandparents of missing teenager Elizabeth Smart shared stories about her and read her notes and poems Thursday in an emotional briefing marking the three-month anniversary of her abduction.
"I can't tell you how much we miss her," said grandfather Charles Smart. "She added a great deal to our lives. We hope we'll be able to bring her home alive, but . . . we're going to bring her home."
Other family members -- and several reporters -- cried as grandmother Dorotha Smart said she still expects Elizabeth to come bounding down the front steps each time she pulls up to her son Ed's home.
Dorotha Smart, saying she wants the world to know more about the girl behind the "missing" flyers, recalled Elizabeth's excitement about possibly being on the East High School running team and her aspirations to attend Julliard music school.
She read from a poem Elizabeth wrote, titled "All About Me," which lists some of her favorite things -- "Fresh mountain air mixed with the smell of pine right after a rain storm/wild flowers/and the color sky blue."
"In spite of her quiet ways, she had a real flair," Dorotha Smart said.
Elizabeth's parents, Ed and Lois Smart, did not attend the briefing Thursday. Family members said they were on a planned trip out of town with their other five children.
Salt Lake City Police Chief Rick Dinse said Thursday he remains confident that the case can be solved, despite the death Aug. 30 of Richard Ricci, investigators' top "potential" suspect.
"Certainly we're closer to solving this case than we were when it began. We've done a lot of work on this," Dinse said. "We think we are eventually going to solve this."
Dinse added investigators are still sifting through many leads -- and other potential suspects.
"We still have people we are looking at, some of them -- if not all of them -- are still centered around Ricci," Dinse said. "There are plenty of leads surrounding him that we are going through."
Regardless of whether Elizabeth is still alive, "Our focus is to find her," said police spokesman Sgt. Fred Louis. "Our focus is to find out who's responsible for abducting her."
Members of the Smart family said they are also determined to find closure in the case.
"It's been a horrific time for our family," said uncle Tom Smart. "We don't know what the answer is going to be. I personally believe this will be solved."
Information is still coming in via the family's hot line and Web site. However, the family has received few answers regarding a June 9 incident near Manti, where a suspicious man was seen digging a hole, he said.
The Sanpete County Sheriff's Department issued a statement Wednesday night, asking anyone who was camping in or around the Millers Flat area in Fairview Canyon between June 8 and 10 and saw any suspicious activity to contact them.
_________

[Sherlock]

Sounds like they know who did it but just don't have enough evidence to make arrests yet.

Salt Lake City Police Chief Rick Dinse said Thursday he remains confident that the case can be solved, despite the death Aug. 30 of Richard Ricci, investigators' top "potential" suspect.

"Certainly we're closer to solving this case than we were when it began. We've done a lot of work on this," Dinse said. "We think we are eventually going to solve this." Dinse added investigators are still sifting through many leads -- and other potential suspects.

"We still have people we are looking at, some of them -- if not all of them -- are still centered around Ricci," Dinse said. "There are plenty of leads surrounding him that we are going through."

Regardless of whether Elizabeth is still alive, "Our focus is to find her," said police spokesman Sgt. Fred Louis. "Our focus is to find out who's responsible for abducting her."

[Sherlock]

Do you know for a fact that this was the perfect family that had no problems whatsoever?

Well, if the family is perfect I hope they don't adopt you because that would ruit it! ;-)

[Devil_Anse]

I know who Gore is, who is Spore?

Tom has always appeared to be a little off. Does he have a psychiatric history or a criminal record? Surely the latter could be checked by reporters; it would be public record.

Reportedly only a handful of prospective buyers had been in to see the house, and all have supposedly been checked out.

I distinctly recall reading some news report that said Ricci was working in the Smarts' neighborhood only 4 days b/f Elizabeth disappeared. I surmise that Ricci did his nursery job, and perhaps also tried to do some handyman work on the side.

As for the tapping of MK's shoulder, if it happened, it could even have been Elizabeth who did that.

I read that they actually called police b/f calling others, and that this had been proved to the police's satisfaction. Phone records can be checked, and I'm sure they have. I do not suspect the Mormon church.

It is my understanding that only Elizabeth and her parents went to the school function. I don't know where the other kids stayed, perhaps they stayed home with Charles watching them. I guess leaving junior high to go to high school is a fairly big deal, but my child left junior high for high school the same month, and no very big fuss was made about it by the school.

Yes, IMO, it is possible that Ed didn't know that Elizabeth liked a boy. Elizabeth may even have had a crush on Ricci, and may have seen him recently in the area. Rememeber he was a charming man. I know he was no Mel Gibson, but young girls seem to really like anyone who pays them attention, and maybe makes them feel grown up.

Yes, it is still possible that she ran away, or at least went willingly b/c she thought she'd be back soon. A teenaged boy may have been at the bottom of it; suppose it was someone who had worked as a helper to Ricci, someone she really found cute. If this is what happened, she was obviously fooled, and I think she has paid with her life for her natural young girl's naivete.

If we ever find out that Ed wasn't really in the hospital for those days, that would be a big "uh-oh." But nothing indicates that; so far, we've heard no such thing.

As to your last paragraph, it makes sense to me, but I also think you should include non-relative family friends in your list of possibilities.

It's possible that, say, some relative of Elizabeth's has acted inappropriately with young girls before. Why wouldn't at least the tabloids dig this up and report it, however? We have heard nothing to indicate this. If such a thing has happened, I'd like to know about it b/f scrapping the male family members' presumption of innocence. I don't convict Ricci, either, at this point, but there is certainly some reason to suspect him.

[varina davis]

delecti" makes it sound like you want to eat it

Interesting comment.

[varina davis]

Yes, IMO, it is possible that Ed didn't know that Elizabeth liked a boy. Elizabeth may even have had a crush on Ricci, and may have seen him recently in the area. Rememeber he was a charming man. I know he was no Mel Gibson, but young girls seem to really like anyone who pays them attention, and maybe makes them feel grown up.

Yes, it is still possible that she ran away, or at least went willingly b/c she thought she'd be back soon. A teenaged boy may have been at the bottom of it; suppose it was someone who had worked as a helper to Ricci, someone she really found cute. If this is what happened, she was obviously fooled, and I think she has paid with her life for her natural young girl's naivete.

Seems possible.

[varina davis]

And "dumb-dumb" is spelled "dum-dum"

It's spelled the way I meant it to be spelled.

[anatolfz]

Discussion of divorce between Ed and Lois; financial problems; change of schools; moving to a new home - and that's for starters. Unfortunately, you and your gang seem to think anything you don't like is rubbish.
In my neck of the woods divorce etc. is pretty common; I don't think it's remotely anything like abduction. The onus is on you to show some kind of link.
I don't mean to single you out, s-g! I suppose everyone who has teenage daughters is reading this news with horror and bafflement

[Devil_Anse]

Dinse knows darn well that he wasn't going to get any information from Ricci, even before Ricci died.

Here's how I think the questioning of Ricci happened:

1. The police show up at his home, and "chat" with him. What is he going to do, tell them to go away? Any conversations he had with them b/f June14 were non-custodial. So for those, the police would not have had to read him his rights under Miranda. Still, at least in theory, he did not have to say one word to them.

2. Ricci is arrested. There was ample reason for this; he was almost surely required to stay in treatment for his heroin problem and perhaps for his alcohol problem, too. Didn't he at one point claim to have gone to a rehab outpatient clinic on the morning of June 5 (during business hours, of course)? Then it seems that was found not to be true. If this occurred, then that was ample grounds for his parole officer to put in a request that Ricci's sentencing judge revoke his parole. Happens all the time to people on parole, probation, or out on bond. Once Ricci was in custody, in order to question him and be able to later use anything he said, police HAD to read him his rights. This includes, explicitly, "you have the right to remain silent."

So why didn't he remain silent? Well, strangely, lots of people who've been in and out of the system will waive their right to remain silent, and talk to police anyway. They shouldn't, though, it never does them a bit of good, and usually does their case harm.

Perhaps from that moment on, Ricci was continually protesting his innocence as to Elizabeth's disappearance. In fact, from what police have said, it seems that the only statements he really made about Elizabeth were exculpatory statements. Along the way, we hear, Ricci foolishly admitted to the Smart theft and the Adams burglary. As Jolly Green once said, it's quite possible he admitted to the Smart theft b/c he had to explain items of theirs in his home--otherwise, they'd have said, aha, you took those the night of June 4-5, didn't you?

Then Angela's personal injury lawyer, Smith, no doubt on Angela's urging, represents Ricci temporarily. Now the police know that Ricci is a closed book to them. Period. Of course Smith told the world, sure, they can talk to him anytime, as long as I'm present. Yes, we just know that Smith would have let him answer all their questions. Not!

So they weren't going to get anything further from Ricci's mouth. That ended long before his death, and they knew it.

[varina davis]

When you think about it, it really doesn't make sense that Ricci would wear a machete returning the car.

In any case, a 12-inch knife is hardly a "machete" of note.