Posted on 08/13/2002 9:57:40 PM PDT by IamHD
New thread for the 14th of August.
None of Durborow's children have been removed from his home, although the state Division of Child and Family Services is investigating, said spokeswoman Carol Sisco. She said caseworkers plan to talk to each of Durborow's children individually today.
I think I read in an earlier article that they had 10 foster children.
Valuable in what way? To whom? Really getting tired of all the sanctimonious parsing of words and phrases. It certainly doesn't seem to be helping in the search for Elizabeth.
I think it's time for folks in Utah to be candid and forthcoming with information -- no matter how it hurts.
I totally agree with you that she should be protected. But Elizabeth may be dead. There may be a killer out there. Unfortunately, this poor little girl is the key to it all. Without her....they have nothing to go by.
If they wanted to protect her, then the family and the PD should not have come out in meeting with reporters and tell them she saw the perp and recognised his voice.
My heart bleeds for this child, believe me !! If there is a trial, this girl's testemony will be the catalist of the whole trial, and the ensuing investigation....by her WORDS as to how it happened and what she saw, and heard.
Totally sad but true.
etc.
Sixteen children between the ages of 8 and 14 from Orem, Provo and American Fork have been identified by Orem authorities from a Web site where Durborow posted their pictures.
Parts of the site are for members only. Durborow charged $29.95 for a 30-day membership or $74.95 for a 90-day membership for access to additional photos of children.
A 750-photo CD of an adolescent girl named "BettyJ" also can be purchased on the site for $24.95.
Warner said some of the children "obviously were photographed under the ruse that they were posing for modeling photographs when in reality they were being surreptitiously taped while they were in the changing room."
Durborow has told authorities he has 10 foster children ranging in age from 9 to 15 years old. Whether other foster children were involved is under investigation by police and the state Division of Child and Family Services.
DCFS officials say that so far, they have not found any indication that other children in Durborow's home have been involved and are allowing them to remain in the custody of Durborow's wife in the meantime.
Carol Sisco, DCFS spokeswoman, said Durborow has never been a licensed foster care provider but has at times provided "proctor" home services for children sent to him by a private agency no longer in business that had a contract with the state. Durborow has adopted 10 to 12 children over the years, although some are grown and out of the house, she said.
etc...
Nothing personal, Utah Girl, I mean the folks connected directly or indirectly with the disappearance of Elizabeth. Even those who feel they have it sewed up, might be able to see or feel that not everything has been said that could be said. If there is a good reason for this, I surely hope it becomes evident soon.
Any facts to support the inuendo, varina?
Earlier this afternoon, I posted #144 in reply to Jolly's #134 & 135 on August 13 thread this afternoon; didn't check here before logging off. Last I looked, he hasn't answered, so, I'm going to re-post my comments.
*******
Is it an "invalid assumption" that young children look to their parents in times of distress, even in the middle of the night? No.
MK, I'm telling you, JG, did not wait any long length of time to run to her parents' bedroom. Fall back to sleep? I doubt that.
Ed & Lois got up, searched everywhere in the house, then Lois saw the window screen & screamed. No barrier, sounds do carry in the still of the night, JG. The can sound as if they are coming from another direction, too.
Don't tell me Ed & Lois wouldn't have asked MK, "What did he look like, what did he say, which way did they go?" And MK would have answered. She might have even said, "It was ____!"
Over these weeks, we have learned that the perp did NOT threaten MK! She knew he had not seen her looking at them. Keep that thought in mind & you'll see why there was no need for her to wait 2 hours! (I wonder which brain came up with that feeble excuse?)
This is not anything like the *Klauss case, where the girls were tied up & told to wait before getting loose. No one, even MK's age, would find any benefit in waiting 2 or so hours - & that subject has been explored on these threads.
LE's, & the Smarts', lies, distortions, contradictions have trigger disbelief. Anything they say from now on, will be compared to other statements.
*******
This is the way I see it no matter what has been published, posted, or televised, etc.
*Klaas
Do you think MK has been coached with a story?
Girl Abducted From Bedroom In Her Salt Lake City Home
By NICK MADIGAN (NYT) 688 words
SALT LAKE CITY, June 5 -- A 14-year-old girl was abducted from her bedroom here at gunpoint early this morning, devastating her parents and five siblings and prompting hundreds of residents to scour the area for a trace of her.
Elizabeth Ann Smart, a soft-spoken teenager, was taken shortly after 2 a.m. from the queen-size bed she shared with her 9-year-old sister, Mary Katherine.
The intruder warned Mary Katherine not to alert anyone or he would harm Elizabeth. She was so terrified that she did not tell her parents for almost two hours.
Edward Smart, the girls' father, a mortgage broker, could barely contain his grief during an interview at a neighbor's house. ''I just can't believe it,'' he said, fighting back tears. ''She's just a beautiful young 14-year-old girl. She's just a sweetheart.''
Mr. Smart lives with his wife, Lois, and their six children -- the others are Charles, 17; Andrew, 12; Edward, 7; and William, 3 -- in the upscale Arlington Hills neighborhood near the University of Utah, overlooking the Salt Lake Valley and the Oquirrh Mountains to the west. Mr. Smart said that his daughter had just graduated from the eighth grade at Bryant Intermediate School and was looking forward to ninth grade at East High School.
''You could not imagine a more angelic girl,'' said Tom Smart, Elizabeth's uncle, who is a photographer for The Deseret News. ''She loves her parents and her grandparents, and she takes care of her brothers and her sisters.''
Surrounded by friends and neighbors eager to help, Mr. Smart asked several to look for Elizabeth in an old sulphur mine nearby in the Wasatch Mountains, as well as in some lime kilns. Both sites had been checked several times, he was told.
The man who took Elizabeth cut through a window screen and crawled inside the three-story hillside house, police said.
''What are you going to do with me?'' Elizabeth asked him, her sister later told her parents. He responded that he was ''maybe'' taking her hostage. The abductor, described by Mary Katherine as wearing a white cap and a beige jacket, let Elizabeth take a pair of shoes.
Bloodhounds brought to the area by police to track Elizabeth's movements lost the scent near the house.
Friends and volunteers pasted fliers across the city, giving the following information: Elizabeth is 5 feet 6 inches tall, weighs 105 pounds, and was wearing short-sleeved red satin pajamas when she was taken.
The city announced that a $10,000 reward had been established for information about the case, and the police were checking a list of people who had toured the Smarts' home, a 7-bedroom house that is for sale at a listed price of $1.19 million.
Bonnie Jean Beesley, who lives across the street from the Smarts with her family, said Mr. Smart woke her in the middle of the night. ''Ed came over and banged on our door and asked if our kids were all right,'' she said. ''That's the kind of guy he is.''
Mrs. Beesley's husband, Brent, is chief executive of the Heritage Savings Bank. According to The Deseret News, a plot to kidnap one of the Beesley children for a $3 million ransom was foiled in 1992 when one of three men involved in the scheme notified the police.
The neighborhood around the Smarts' home was filled with law enforcement officers and reporters today. This evening, neighbors held a prayer service at the Federal Heights ward house of the Mormon Church.
After the service, friends hugged Lois Smart, who seemed to melt into their arms, almost immobile with grief.
''I know how much they're grieving,'' said Mariel Wirthlin, 10, a friend of Mary Katherine. ''To have a guy come and take her seems very scary.''
Mariel's mother, Lisa Wirthlin, said she hoped that ''whoever did this will soften.''
How to determine if a mirror is 2 way or not.
Not to scare you, but to make you aware. This was passed
on by a policewoman who travels all over the US and gives seminars and techniques for business women.
HOW TO DETECT A 2-WAY MIRROR
When we visit toilets, bathrooms, hotel rooms, changing
rooms, etc., how many of you know for sure that the seemingly ordinary mirror hanging on the wall is a real mirror, or actually a 2-way mirror (i.e., they can see you, but you can't see them)? There have been many cases of people installing 2-way mirrors in female changing rooms. It is very difficult to positively identify the surface by just looking at it. So, how do we determine with any amount of certainty what type of mirror we are looking at? Just conduct this simple test: Place the tip of your fingernail against the reflective surface and if there is a GAP between your fingernail and the image of the nail when you look at you nail, there will look like a space is between, then it is a GENUINE mirror. However, if your fingernail DIRECTLY TOUCHES the image of your nail, then BEWARE, FOR IT IS A 2-WAY MIRROR! So remember, every time you see a mirror, do the "fingernail test." It doesn't cost you anything. It is simple to do, and it might save you from getting "visually raped"! This is a really good thing to do. The reason there is a gap on a real mirror, is because the silver is on the back of the mirror UNDER the glass. Whereas with a two-way mirror, the silver is on the surface. Keep it in mind!
Ladies: Share this with your girl friends.
Men: Share this with your wives, daughters and/or girlfriend or friends.
PASS THIS ON FOR SAFETY! go try it in your bathroom mirror to see what they mean.
I hope it is not the lead investigators theory because if Ricci is involved then it was a calculated, pre-planned kidnapping.
1) Ricci's accomplice raped and/or killed the girl probably while Ricci was at work, accounting for Ricci's sour attitude when he returned the jeep.
WARNING! ENTERING A SPECULATION ZONE!
I've laid my foundation in previous posts for an accomplice being involved. A hiding place for the Jeep both before and after the crime and a need to have a secure location to hold Elizabeth are the cornerstones of that foundation. He could also be a sex offender who's interest was physical rather than monetary. Whoever this is, Ricci has a lot of leverage on him right now. All he has to do is make a deal with LE and he could send his accomplice to the firing squad. As for Rick's sour mood, why woudn't he be in one. He just disposed of a body, he didn't get any money, and he is afraid he's going back to jail for life or worse. I'd call that a pretty bad hair day.
2) Ricci acted alone and may have thought he could leave the girl in the jeep in a secure location - tied and gagged. Maybe she suffocated in the unseasonably hot June weather this year. This might account for why all the windows were open on the jeep when it was returned.
I find this scenario the least likely because of my strong feelings about an accomplice. I think she was murdered in her basement holding area, placed in a plastic bag and stuffed into the back of the Jeep for the long ride to her resting place. I don't know how long it takes for a body to start smelling, maybe somebody can enligten us. She also could have been dead in the basement for a period of time while they were getting ready for the trip.
3) Maybe Ricci and his accomplice(s) decided to cut their losses after the sensational publicity. It became unrealistic to assume they could safely get a huge ransom after FBI involvement, nationwide publicity, etc.
Whether the crime was for money, sex, or both, this scenario is the most plausible in my opinion. The chances of Elizabeth getting out alive was almost zero in any case. That is just the way kidnapping goes, especially if she could positively identify one of the perpetrators. I do so hope that I'm wrong and that she is still alive but the odds don't favor it.
I think we need more information before we can begin to answer the questions in your post about Edmunds' help and the hint of blood evidence in the Jeep. I also find the coincidence of Fred Trujillo to be of interest. I hope that LE takes a good look at him. On the one hand you could say that if he was involved then why would he go on every news show on cable, but you could also look at it as a smart criminal trying to take the heat off of himself by standing directly in the light. Someone like that would be laughing inside at his cleverness. I really don't think he's our accomplice but it sure does bear looking into.
IMO, MK would have fled to her parents as soon as the door was shut, in particular because the perp did have a gun, & Elizabeth was obviously in danger. Parents mean safety, protection.
There's no way to know if MK was coached, for she hasn't been allowed to say anything, publically.
I'm not trying to be sanctimonious. I don't look at myself as a know it all, but I am trying to be a peacemaker on this thread. How would you have me present my ideas?
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