Elizabeth Smart case, August 13, 2002

[IamHD]

If you would like me to ping you, please let me know. :)

[sandude]

What do you call photos and audio recordings?

I've stated before that the Smarts could have shown MK a photo of Ricci along with other photos of their renovation project. It could have been done in such a way as to not taint her memory of the night but rather to try to reinforce that memory had she recognized anything. Where have you seen that she was given audio tapes to listen to? As to my knowledge that is speculation. My feeling on this is that MK has stated that the voice sounded familiar (recognizable) but that she couldn't put her finger on who it was. LE may have done a sort of 'audio lineup' but I've never seen it published. If you have any direct information on this I would appreciate it. I was quite impressed with Jeanne Boylan and I have no reason to believe that she would be deceptive in anyway. Having said that, we all know the LE is allowed to spread whatever disinformation they see fit in order to try and catch the perpetrator.

[Vinomori]

Has there been no public outcry in SLC about this? Or does the public assume the police have their man, so no one is worried about the kidnapper striking again?

Anyone in the public with an IQ over 27 knows that the police have their man.

[Neenah]

Larry King has been following the Smart case since day one. The CNN talk show host was in Salt Lake City Friday the same day he aired an interview with Elizabeth’s parents Ed and Lois Smart.

He has some opinions that the public and others in the media may share but are not openly talking about.

Two-News asked him about his conversation with the Smarts and his thoughts on why this case has gained so much attention.

King said there are several reasons for continued media coverage of the Smart case.

“They’re white, they're rich or well-off, the circumstances are extraordinary, the community is extraordinary, the faith is extraordinary, plus they have come forward,” King said.

Ed and Lois Smart came forward again Friday.this time inviting King into their Salt Lake City home.

“He really had a tough time talking about going into her room. My sympathy is enormous,” King said. But King added there are some questions the Smarts can't answer.

“I asked them today, did Mary Katherine (Elizabeth’s sister who witnessed the kidnapping) tell you she knew the abductor? They never answered. I said, did you ask? They said they've been told by the police not to ask. Well, that's significant. If she didn't yell and Elizabeth didn't yell the probability is they knew the abductor,” King said.

Even though it's been one month and no sign of Elizabeth, King said the Smarts still believe she's alive. King said speculation continues and any theory is possible. “There's no way to guess it. My favorite conclusion would be I ran away with a boy, I met a guy at the Olympics and she' s in Romania with this Olympian skier, best news in the world,” King said.

The interview was to run at 7 p.m. Friday night on CNN.

Source

[TXLady]

Anyone in the public with an IQ over 27 knows that the police have their man.

I as well as many others with an IQ well over 27 are not as sure as you are, there are still too many things we don't know and too many things that don't add up. I realize Ricci is a career criminal and many circumstantial things point to him and he could well be capable of the crime. However they still have not charged him.

[TXLady]

People on this thread are called All Conspiracy All The Time people, for pointing out the inconsistencies given by the PD and the family. Yet those very inconsistecies are in print and transcripts that anyone can find. The inconsistencies are questioned all over the country. Yet, is it given to confuse the public? I don't know, but there is something wrong, and I find it hard to believe that someone connected with this investigation don't know it. If the people following this closely are saying in all over the land, not just on this running thread, then something is wrong. To believe otherwise, with confusion abounding all over in this case, is to take a Cookie Cutter stance on what was fed by the PD and family in it's inconsistencies, and call it cut and dried.

I agree with you on this Neenah, I have read several forums besides this one and too many people have the same questions voiced on this thread. If it was only one or two on here and not anywhere else it would seem to be more likely the "Conspiracy Theory" type ideas.

[Neenah]

Salt Lake City police Chief Rick Dinse tried to clear up confusion created on Tuesday when a police spokesman offered reporters a revised version of what happened in the early morning hours of June 5 in the Smarts' $1.19 million home but then wouldn't or couldn't explain apparent contradictions in the new story.

Dinse said today that the changes in the account of the abduction have been a natural result of the progression of the investigation.

"I told everyone a week ago there were ambiguities in this statement, and that there were ambiguities between what you were reporting and what we were getting," Dinse told reporters today. "Yesterday was the clarification."

Snip

"This investigation would be very different without Mary Katherine," the police chief said. "She has provided us with a tremendous amount of information. I believe we will resolve this case and a big reason for that is Mary Katherine."

Dinse worked hard to correct the impression that the police investigation was stumbling, both by clarifying what police know and are willing to say, and making clear what they are not willing to say.

Key among those questions are how police could release an extremely detailed description of the suspect, but still offer no composite sketch, and whether Mary Katherine recognized the kidnapper's voice.

"We are not putting out a composite and I am not clarifying why we are not putting out a composite," he said. "For reasons of the investigation I am not going to discuss that.

"She heard the [suspect's] voice, but whether or not she recognized it I am not going to clarify at this time," he added.

He also refused to say in what part of the house Mary Katherine saw the suspect when she left the bedroom, but he did say that Elizabeth was still with him.

"These things have some potential in the investigation," Dinse said. "We know a lot of things in the investigation that we are not going to put out into the media. … We don't want to compromise the investigation in any respect."

Conflicting Accounts

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, police spokesman Capt. Scott Atkinson said Mary Katherine feigned sleep while a dark-haired man kidnapped the older girl at gunpoint from the bed the two shared. Atkinson said the abductor never spoke to Mary Katherine because he apparently believed she was asleep.

"The suspect did not know he was observed by this child during the time he was in the victim's house," Atkinson said, adding that the younger girl also saw the man a second time in the house, "both times in connection with the abduction." He declined to say how much time elapsed between the two times the girl saw the suspect, or where she saw him the second time.

"I don't know if she went back to sleep and then saw him again," he said.

Those details directly contradict the version given nearly two weeks ago, shortly after Elizabeth disappeared, but Atkinson did not account for the discrepancies Tuesday, nor did he answer questions about how the girl could have been too scared to leave her room to awaken her parents or any of her brothers or sisters, but apparently left the room to see the kidnapper again.

The difference in the two accounts left some observers are wondering if the investigation was being bungled or if police are trying to appear incompetent.

A reporter who has covered the department for nearly three years for The Salt Lake Tribune said the appearance that police are stumbling through the investigation may not be the reality.

"I know they have their way of doing things," Kevin Vigh said today on ABCNEWS' Good Morning America. "They may look incompetent right now, but that may be them as they're trying to portray themselves. For all we know, they may want some suspect to think that they're dropping the ball so that person lets down their guard."

Snip

Source

[cookiedough]

You have absolutely no reason to insult me, when replying to my post.

[Neenah]

LOl Ol Lare is a joke, I agree ! The suspender's are way to tight ! But, even tho he only throws soft balls, his transcripts are easy to get. I am not interested in what Lare says, but when the player's in this are on...I do pay attention to what they say, and body language.

Liberace's buddy: Did you notice before you clicked it off, that the guy had a face lift to look like the Ivory Keyed wonder? sick.< scarcasm, on >

[Iwo Jima]

Boylan's comments have great weight with me, as well. I read and heard her comments as being incredibly diplomatic, diplomacy being one of her strong suits. I also interpreted her comments to mean that she saw nothing that the police had done which would compromise a prosecution from the viewpoint of MK's identification of the intruder, which is all she is really involved in.

One reason of course that the police hadn't fouled things up with respect MK's statements and memory is that they hadn't done much, apparently hadn't seriously interviewed her at all. Boylan sees this as an unexpected benefit because she just naturally assumed that MK would have been interviewed extensively and that it would have been totallly botched, so when neither had happened, she was delighted because she had fresh ground to cover.

Of course, had she been allowed to do her work earlier, it might have made a huge difference. Elizabeth might have been found alive, or her kidnappers might have been found by now with evidence to convict them.

I don't interprete Boylan's comments as being an overall endorsement of how the police have handled this case because, among other things, Boylan is only involved with one aspect of the case -- the questioning of MK about what she saw. For another thing, it is two entirely different things to say that the police haven't done anything which will damage a prosecution and that the police have treated the public as dupes to be misled as opposed to a valuable resource. If properly tapped, this public resource could bring forth a wealth of information and hopefully produce the evidence which the police need to make this case but obviously don't have and don't appear to be likely to get the way that they are going.

[L84AD8]

Because SLC is a large percentage of Mormons, I think the citizens would look to the Bishops and others high in the church to know how they should react. Therefore, if the Hierarchy of the church is not reacting, the masses will not.

You notice that early on in the case, Ed Smart called the Bishop in.

[lakey]

Same excellent policemen working the Smart case as worked the Beesley kidnapping, Campbell gang, 10 years ago?

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

Police retire, die, leave on disability. Add that to the fact - and this IS a fact!! - our law enforcement all over the country have much lower qualification standards than they did 10 years ago.

Before affirmative action, LAPD - Los Angeles City Police, had a height requirement, chest expansion was 44 inches. LA County Sheriff's, ditto, but the chest expansion was 42 inches.

Applicants had to pass stringent written & oral tests, including psychological & physical agility exams. Want a promotion? More tests.

I don't know Utah's requirements. By the law of averages, though, I'm sure not all of the same policemen are on the Smart case. And, some with an "angel" could very well have been promoted to higher positions of authority that don't know their head from a hole in the ground!

[Iwo Jima]

Yes, I see what you are saying. But you may have heard the expression to the effect that "Some people have ten years worth of experience whereas others have one years worth of experience ten times." Based on what Boylan has said, it sounds as though the SLCPD ineffectively and superficially interviewed MK however many number of times and that she is grateful that nothing in depth was done because it made her job so much easier. Of course, Boylan won't come out and say this directly, for good reason, but that is how I interprete her comments.

[landerwy]

"Because SLC is a large percentage of Mormons, I think the citizens would look to the Bishops and others high in the church to know how they should react. Therefore, if the Hierarchy of the church is not reacting, the masses will not."

ROFL, you're kidding, right?

[ChocChipCookie]

Bonnie Jean Beesley told the Times that in the middle of the night after the intruder had disappeared with Elizabeth, Ed Smart “came over and banged on our door and asked if our kids were all right. That’s the kind of guy he is.”

Does anyone besides me find this bizarre? The Beesley kidnapping happened ten years ago. The Beesley children are now in their teens and twenties, and the Smarts didn't even live across the street from them when the 1992 kidnapping was foiled. I'm surprised that he even knew about it or remembered it. I certainly don't have any idea of what crimes my neighbors may have been victims of TEN YEARS ago.

I just find it really strange that in what has got to be the worst possible scenario for a parent, Ed would rush over to his neighbors homes (I don't believe the Beesleys were the only ones), bang on their doors in the middle of the night, and ask if their children were OK. Very odd.