Mysterious Suburban Chicago Crop Circles

NBC 5 Chicago ^ | 7/26/02 | NBC 5 Chicago

[Dengar01]

Timing Suspicious On Mysterious Suburban Crop Circles
Could Eerie Mystery Have To Do With Movie Release?

Is it a case of mysterious crop circles -- or an elaborate movie hoax?

A soybean farmer in Naperville said the broken, concentric rings that appeared in a field off Diehl Road left him scratching his head.

"Have you ever heard of something so crazy?" Steve Berning said. "Unbelievable."

Berning said the circles appeared last weekend and damaged more than 10 percent of his 8-acre field.

The circles do resemble similar ones seen in England, but in this case, the timing of their appearance in the western suburb is a bit suspicious.

Two weeks from now, "Signs" hits the big screen. The movie starring Mel Gibson involves -- you guessed it -- mysterious crop circles.

William Leone, an investigator with the Mutual UFO Network, said soil analysis could determine whether the circles have human or extraterrestrial origins.

But Illinois Farm Bureau spokesman Dennis Vercler scoffed at that idea.

"Since I don't believe in UFOs -- at least not soybean-destroying UFOs -- I have to assume whoever did this did it intentionally as a malicious prank," Vercler said.

Meanwhile, Berning doesn't seem overly upset about the circles.

"There's some damage, which upsets me," Berning said. "But I'm more curious than anything. I"ll always be asking questions."

[FormerLurker]

What I'm saying is that by using quality as your definition of proof you entire arguement is built on an assumption of human incompetence. By saying "look at this crappy one obviously made by humans, and this good one obviously not made by humans" you're not proving anything about the circles, all you're proving is your own bias.

I'm saying that those who claim to be able to hoax crop circles can't fake the phenomena that we have observed. Their BEST effort falls short of what has been seen throughout the world. If they CAN'T do better, there is NO reason to believe that THEY HAVE. Is that clear enough?

[FormerLurker]

Depending on the height change from highway to crop and the hieght of the crop you could hold a freaking concert in that circle and the people on the road wouldn't see it.

I seriously doubt that. And I also seriously doubt that a team of individuals could have created that formation in broad daylight without being seen, especially within the timeframe of 45 minutes..

[discostu]

But that's all built on the assumption that all the good ones aren't done by the hoaxers. Without that assumption you've got nothing to build this "quality" test on.

[discostu]

Again, you've obviously never driven through farmland, in a lot of those places the highway is seriously recessed from the rest. Also you've obviously never walked through a late season cornfield, the corn gets taller than people. Depending on the terrain, the crop and the age (which since it's all brown would indicate late, ie tall) it's not too hard to have a 20' "wall" on either side of the highway about 15' laterally away from it, as long as what you're doing doesn't cross the visibility line (which would be the extension of the line from your eyes to the top of the the highest crop you can see) it's invisible. And given the serious angle of that site line that's gotta stick up pretty tall (20' higher for every 15' of lateral distance from you, so something 60 feet from the road would have to stick up more than 80' in the air (getting a bonus from being on a hill relative to you of course) to be visible. Now given that a standard 18 wheeler is about 60' in length and I guessed 2 18-wheeler lengths (or 120') that means that in order to be visible from the road something would have to stick up 160' in the air to be seen from the road (that's at the point of the crop circle nearest the road). Now which is most likely to be able to bend some stalks and NOT stick up up 160' in the air: people with rope and plywood or a flying saucer.

[VadeRetro]

Jedi, in looking a little closer at the image that you posted, it appears to have been hoaxed. If you look at the lack of symmetry in the left corner of the top triangle below the eye, the pattern does not match that in the right hand corner.

So the test of whether a pattern is real or hoaxed is a crisp, professional finish. Not coincidentally, the proof of paranormal origin for the "real" ones is that they are so crisp and clean. The "confession" of anyone claiming to have hoaxed a "real" one may be discarded as obviously false.

Looks like a bullet-proof delusional system to me!

[Gumlegs]

What? Do you mean to tell us you don't believe incredibly intelligent alien life forms capable of traversing hundreds of light years didn't come here to make pointless squiggles in corn fields?

You don't believe there are extra-terrestrial f.Christians?

[VadeRetro]

Do you mean to tell us you don't believe incredibly intelligent alien life forms capable of traversing hundreds of light years didn't come here to make pointless squiggles in corn fields?

Oh, that part I get! They can't figure out how else to tell us that they're here.

[PatrickHenry]

Back in post 462, when I described how to make a complicated crop circle, I said "You can be precise laying out the diameters by using a compass rose at the center stake." What I had in mind is something like this:

It could be fairly small, with raised wooden "fins" to guide the ropes. The result should be extremely precise. With the compass rose greatly exaggerated in size, the guys with the ropes who mark out the diameters would look like this (and it wouldn't take anywhere near this many people):

Additional circles can be made, just by changing the length of the rope tied to the center stake. As each new circle crosses a diameter line, you can "connect the dots" with more rope to create something that looks very much like a spider's web. It should be fairly easy to construct a very intricate design in very little time. This ain't rocket science.

[FormerLurker]

But that's all built on the assumption that all the good ones aren't done by the hoaxers.

Arguably the BEST team of hoaxsters around is the so-called circlemakers, previously known as Team Satan. They had taken DAYS in broad daylight in New Zealand to build a crop circle formation, which was in fact somewhat elaborate and complex. It was filmed by a NBC film crew I believe while they built it. It WAS in fact FLAWED, and that WAS their best work. So with NO PROOF whatsovever that they or anyone else CAN build a formation as has been observed to be perfectly symmetrical and geometrically correct, I'd say it'd be more of an act of FAITH to believe that this crew or any other could FAKE a crop circle formation.

NBC TO LEAD NEW WAVE OF CROP CIRCLES DEBUNKING.

Follow the link below for more info on the "circlemakers"..

The Anatomy of Deception

Some interesting examples of the differences between hoaxes and the real thing can readily be seen below...

Hoaxes

The Real Thing

---

Some comparisons can be seen below..

[balrog666]

Additional circles can be made, just by changing the length of the rope tied to the center stake. As each new circle crosses a diameter line, you can "connect the dots" with more rope to create something that looks very much like a spider's web. It should be fairly easy to construct a very intricate design in very little time. This ain't rocket science.

Actually fishing line would be much easier and lighter than rope. And, nope, it ain't rocket science except to those who can't tell rocket science from magic (or little green men).

[FormerLurker]

So the test of whether a pattern is real or hoaxed is a crisp, professional finish.

I've posted the criteria more times than I'd of cared to. You obviously haven't paid attention or understood any of it. A "professional finish" isn't one of things I'd say matters, although SYMMETRY DOES and GEOMETRIC PRECISION DOES. Do you need furthur elaboration on that?

Not coincidentally, the proof of paranormal origin for the "real" ones is that they are so crisp and clean.

The proof is that the hoaxers CAN'T create one that IS symmetrical and geometrically precise. Not one that has been documented as hoaxed (and not simply "claimed") have met that criteria, never mind the biological abberations.

The "confession" of anyone claiming to have hoaxed a "real" one may be discarded as obviously false.

If you "confessed" to me that you created the Leaning Tower of Pisa I wouldn't believe you about that either.

Looks like a bullet-proof delusional system to me!

Seems like your delusion works well for you at least...

[PatrickHenry]

Actually fishing line would be much easier and lighter than rope.

Right. Good idea. Especially since we'll be backpacking this stuff across the field while walking on stilts.

Also, the actual lines in the crops can be made very precise by using the right kind of plank-snowshoes. It would take a little experimenting, but once you had the optimum size figured out for easy walking, all you need is to have the pair of snowshoes be the width of the channel you want to stomp out, and then you walk along with a sliding motion, keeping the inner edges of the snowshoes in contact, so that you always had a constant width of flattened crops. All it takes is a bit of practice, and you too can be as exact as the aliens.

[discostu]

That would be the best team of hoaxers that is KNOWN. Very important detail there. Again everything you're building from is an assumption of human mediocrity.

[Scully]

bored scientist placemarker...

[FormerLurker]

Again, you've obviously never driven through farmland, in a lot of those places the highway is seriously recessed from the rest.

And again, you're making a false assumtion. I have driven through MANY types of farmland, flatland, rolling hills, and mountainous. I know what farm land looks like while driving, rest assured..

Also you've obviously never walked through a late season cornfield, the corn gets taller than people.

You're throwing out a red herring, as the Julia formation in question was formed in wheat..

Wiltshire - July 7, 1996

Depending on the terrain, the crop and the age (which since it's all brown would indicate late, ie tall) it's not too hard to have a 20' "wall" on either side of the highway about 15' laterally away from it, as long as what you're doing doesn't cross the visibility line (which would be the extension of the line from your eyes to the top of the the highest crop you can see) it's invisible.

For one, the wheat isn't that tall. Secondly, the date was July 7, 1996, so I don't think that is harvest time for wheat in England. Additionally, you can see from the image that the field is relatively flat and the vehicles traveling by it have a direct line of sight to the formation..

You are grasping for straws here...

[FormerLurker]

That would be the best team of hoaxers that is KNOWN. Very important detail there. Again everything you're building from is an assumption of human mediocrity.

Again you're grasping for straws.

1. IF there were a team of hoaxers that COULD create something that IS geometrically precise and symmetrical, don't you think they would have displayed their work and proved it by now? You know how these hoaxsters just LOVE to brag about their accomplishments. And yes, HUMAN NATURE dictates that would be the case.
2. You assume that because there are some people who claim to be able to fake crop circles, ALL crop circles must be the work of such people, even though not one of them have been able to duplicate the characteristics of REAL formations.
3. To make such claims without any proof or evidence is simply a leap of faith. It definitely does not qualify as science, nor does it follow reason or logic.
4. Setting aside the geometric qualities of the formations, there is also the matter of the 90 bends in the crops without damage, and the weaving of the crops at the floor of the formation. As much as you'd love to find a human explanation for that, I seriously doubt you can.

[balrog666]

IF there were a team of hoaxers that COULD create something that IS geometrically precise and symmetrical, don't you think they would have displayed their work and proved it by now? You know how these hoaxsters just LOVE to brag about their accomplishments. And yes, HUMAN NATURE dictates that would be the case.

Right. We all remember how those Nessie fakers rushed forward to announce their hoax after only 60 years.

[FormerLurker]

Psst. I've never said that crop circles can't be faked. I've said that NOT ALL OF THEM ARE FAKES however. And I have yet to see a hoaxed formation come close to the symmetry and precision of a REAL formation, nor have any hoaxed formations been able to duplicate the bending of the crop at 90 angles.

[FormerLurker]

We all remember how those Nessie fakers rushed forward to announce their hoax after only 60 years.

Sorry, I haven't been keeping abreast of that topic. However, I'd consider any claims made 60 years after the fact to be dubious at best..

Would they still be alive, and if so, why bother?

[PatrickHenry]

Even numbered post.