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Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage
Testimony to the U.S. House Judiciary Committee, Subcommittee on Immigration ^ | April 21, 1998 | Dr. Norman Matloff

Posted on 06/25/2002 6:14:36 PM PDT by FormerLurker

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As this is a most important issue, I've reposted this article from another thread.

Related threads on this topic can be found below..

U.S. investigating claims Sun layoffs favored foreign workers (H-1B visas )

Do We Still Need As Many H-1B Visas?: No

1 posted on 06/25/2002 6:14:36 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: christine11
Any thoughts on this?
2 posted on 06/25/2002 6:27:57 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: StolarStorm
Your thoughts?
3 posted on 06/25/2002 6:29:47 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: Tancredo Fan; Sabertooth
Bump for form and content.
4 posted on 06/25/2002 6:30:21 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: FormerLurker
Certainly times have changed the last year or two, with the huge tech bubble of the late 1990's breaking.

For a while you just could not find what you needed, and with all the hype, alot of not so good candidates were sucked up into the vacuum. There's at least a ten to one difference in usefulness between the top programmer and the bottom, and the ones who could deliver the goods were in hot demand.

Now most of the computer companies have downsized, and most of the dot-coms have vanished. Few are hiring. Those who got in late, and didn't have something special (luck, ability or drive) are hurting or collecting unemployment or adapting to a new, lower, life style.

This article, at least in the opening words I skimmed, tries to score rhetorical points by pointing out the contrast between the scarcity of good programmers in the late 1990's and the current overabundance of so-so programmers. No big deal. Just part of the usual boom and bust of this business, and probably of most other rapidly evolving business's.

5 posted on 06/25/2002 6:36:48 PM PDT by ThePythonicCow
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6 posted on 06/25/2002 6:37:41 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: ThePythonicCow
This article, at least in the opening words I skimmed, tries to score rhetorical points by pointing out the contrast between the scarcity of good programmers in the late 1990's and the current overabundance of so-so programmers.

You've obviously skimmed too fast. The article states facts proving that highly skilled and talented engineers are currently being replaced by foreign workers on H-1B visas. You should go back and read the article, this time without "skimming". These "so-so" programmers as you call them are those engineers who have passed the age of 40. They are being replaced with "so-so" warm bodies from India, Pakistan, China, and a host of other countries. Companies such as Lucent, Nortel, Sun, and many others are laying off American workers to make room for foreign workers who will work long hours for less...

7 posted on 06/25/2002 6:46:27 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: Marine Inspector
Ping!
8 posted on 06/25/2002 6:48:24 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: FormerLurker
Looks like my misreading provoked you into a good summary of what this article is saying. Thanks for clarifying.

I'm closer to 60 than 40, and still get paid good money, mostly for my programming skills and hard work. Of course, that means I've been continually retraining myself for nearly three decades now.

Perhaps if I get caught up in this trend someday myself, I will think differently, but for now, I have trouble getting to bent out of shape over it. However I suspect that if I did get such a layoff, I'd be too busy searching out the next job to loose sleep over the motivations of the layoff.

There are still one heck of a lot of people, of all stripes, programming. And it's ok by me if companies understand that they aren't there to keep people employed - they're there to make a profit.

And when I am hiring, the more competition for my openings the better.

9 posted on 06/25/2002 7:02:09 PM PDT by ThePythonicCow
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To: FormerLurker
That is why I am moving from programming to database administration. At least in database administration you are not competing with kids.

The point about reeducation is right on the money. At my age it would be pointless to learn Java, Perl, Python, CGI, Javascript or other 'hot' web stuff because there are lots of kids who already know it and managers flatly do not want to hire an older person. And taking classes, no matter what the computer schools say, is pointless. Hiring managers want experience so in practice it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to switch from the ghetto of legacy maintenance to more modern skills.

10 posted on 06/25/2002 7:07:18 PM PDT by Tokhtamish
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To: FormerLurker
What's the problem with this? The effect is that overall wages in the software industry will be decreased, as they should.
11 posted on 06/25/2002 7:09:10 PM PDT by billybudd
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To: Tokhtamish
Sounds like a good strategy. The software development field sucks as a career. The "web skills" pay very little anyway, since the supply of kids who possess or claim to possess them is great.

12 posted on 06/25/2002 7:20:14 PM PDT by StockAyatollah
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To: billybudd
What's the problem with this? The effect is that overall wages in the software industry will be decreased, as they should.

The net effect is millions of US software engineers will be replaced with Chinese, Indian, and Pakistani "engineers". Many of them filling 'sensitive' positions. Gee, what a good idea that is. You ever wonder how "espionage" REALLY happens? It's when you let those into this country who have motives other than the best interest of the United States, give them a security clearance, and then put them into a "high-tech" position. Even those positions which aren't deemed "sensitive" allow those individuals to pick up our latest technology in ALL facets of our "high-tech" world, be it telecommunications, imaging, or signal processing.

That is not even to mention that those US engineers who are unemployed are currently not spending what they used to spend, so the entire US economy goes into a downward spiral.

Slave labor is always cheap. Then again, you get what you pay for...

13 posted on 06/25/2002 7:28:13 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: StockAyatollah
The software development field sucks as a career.

And before you know it, the ONLY people who will be able to develop software are FOREIGN NATIONALS.

14 posted on 06/25/2002 7:30:12 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: DoughtyOne
Thanks for the bump. Any thoughts on this?
15 posted on 06/25/2002 7:34:41 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: Admin Moderator
Evidently someone thought this wasn't news worthy, and pulled it from several FR topic lists. If this isn't news worthy, there isn't a whole lot here that is...
16 posted on 06/25/2002 7:49:11 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
i'm afraid that this is just a wee bit outside my range of knowledge ;)
17 posted on 06/25/2002 7:56:03 PM PDT by christine
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To: AnnaZ
What do you think about all of this Anna?
18 posted on 06/25/2002 8:11:04 PM PDT by FormerLurker
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To: FormerLurker
An InformationWeek survey of hiring managers found that only 2% of them would prefer to hire an applicant with more than 10 years of experience.
 
That's just plain weird. Shades of Glengarry Glenn Ross.
 
 
After reading through, it seems like it's an issue of $$$. The references to indentured servitude are rife, and probably with reason.
 
Not unlike your average Mexican gardener in relation to the seasoned, knowledgeable landscaper. That's just them market economics, I guess.

19 posted on 06/25/2002 8:58:20 PM PDT by AnnaZ
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To: Tokhtamish
"Java, Perl, Python, CGI, Javascript"

Those skills aren't too hot right now. .NET is the big thing going on now.

On topic: Hopefully companies will realize over time that their "cheap" foreign programmers cost them more money doing re-work than they save on hourly wage.

As communication is essential to creating applications that meet the needs and desires of clients, H1-Bs and foreign outsourced IT fail to live up to expectations.

20 posted on 06/25/2002 9:15:05 PM PDT by StolarStorm
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