Posted on 03/15/2002 6:54:33 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
Repost – Highlights from chapters 1-5 copied from the original forum to the new one. To reference the full version, click here: Original Green Dragon Inn Within the first five chapters... disregard the reply numbers... they wont work.
Thank you ecurbh, for copying and editing our old thread so that the highlights could be moved here! Highlights of the first five chapters from the old thread are pasted into the first 5 replies here. For those of you who are just joining you… as of this post we are beginning Chapter 6.
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Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn
Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And wither then? I cannot say.
- JRR Tolkien
Politics also goes ever on and on.
This is a place for FReeper Tolkien fans to come and take a break from the impure reality of conservative activism and relax a little with a great story. We (the other co-conspirators and I) would like to study together the writings of Tolkien, beginning together, and discussing as we go through The Lord of the Rings together.
This is a chapter discussion, roughly one chapter per week, with the discussion mostly centered on the books, though of course the movie will be contrasted and compared, and perhaps used to illustrate another interpretation of the story.
Every week, someone from the group (maybe me) will ping The Green Dragon List to the new Chapter, but we will continue this one thread until it becomes too cumbersome…. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will for now serve as the Thain of the list.
If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed.
Some have loved this story a long time, and some are newly discovering it. If you fit either category, we invite you to join in, but we would like this thread to stay mostly focused on the chapter at hand and keep moving, but at a pace everyone can keep up with… No jumping ahead, and no lagging behind! If you have other news to report or wish to discuss something Tolkien in more general terms… May we recommend the equally homey Hobbit Hole where my co-conspirators and I frequently have plenty of good talk.
One other request…. This thread will get long. In recognition that images slow down the thread for many, let’s keep the posting of images to a minimum on this thread. If there is a great illustration you wish to share, let’s try to use links instead of images wherever possible.
So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.
Though it is a work of fiction, we believe the inspiration to be gained can only help us in our larger political goals: to appreciate and defend our freedom, our culture and our political ideals. May the fellowship and insight gained from this discussion help us to work through the issues that are the basis for our many shared ideals.
Besides, we Tolkien fans* need something to keep us busy during the next two years of waiting for the next two films. If you do not enjoy this story, then please simply leave us be.
*Also known as Geeky Hobbity Weirdos, obsessive fanatics, you name it, we have heard it and we see these names as compliments. In other words: don’t act like a troll, or we will distract you with our endless babble until the morning sun turns you to stone.
In Letter 144 (p.174) he states:
As a story, I think it is good that there should be a lot of things unexplained (especially if an explanation actually exists)....And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally).Not a very satisfying answer for curious hobbitses!
As for what Tom actually is, in Letter 19 (p.26) Tom is "the spirit of the (vanishing) Oxford and Berkshire countryside".
In Letter 144 (pp. 178-179) he writes that "Tom Bombadil is not an important person - to the narrative." And "he represents something that I feel important." Why was he left in LOTR?
I would not, however, have left him in, if he did not have some kind of function. I might put it this way. The story is cast in terms of a good side, and a bad side, beauty against ruthless ugliness, tyranny against kingship, moderated freedom with consent against compulsion that has long lost any object save mere power,and so on; but both sides in some degree, conservative or destructive, want a measure of control. But if you have, as it were taken 'a vow of poverty', renounced control, and take your delight in things for themselves without reference to yourself, watching, observing, and to some extent knowing, then the question of the rights and wrongs of power and control might become utterly meaningless to you, and the means of power quite valueless.And later on in the same paragraph: "Ultimately only the victory of the West will allow Bombadil to continue, or even to survive. Nothing would be left for him in the world of Sauron."
Restated in Letter 153 (p. 192):
In historical fact I put him in because I had already 'invented' him independently (he first appeared in the Oxford Magazine) and wanted an 'adventure' on the way. But I kept him in, and as he was, because he represents certain things otherwise left out. I do not mean him to be an allegory - or I should not have given him so particular, individual, and ridiculous a name - but 'allegory' is the only mode of exhibiting certain functions: he is then an 'allegory', or an exemplar, a particular embodying of pure (real) natural science: the spirit that desires knowledge of other things, their history and nature, because they are 'other' and wholly independent of the enquiring mind, a spirit coeval with the rational mind, and entirely unconcerned with 'doing' anything with the knowledge: Zoology and Biology not Cattle-breeding or Agriculture.Hope this helps out some! Since I was driving myself crazy trying to figure out who/what Tom is, I thought I'd have better luck finding out what Tolkien intended him to be.
But if you have, as it were taken 'a vow of poverty', renounced control, and take your delight in things for themselves without reference to yourself, watching, observing, and to some extent knowing, then the question of the rights and wrongs of power and control might become utterly meaningless to you, and the means of power quite valueless.
Thank you.
Looks like you were right on with your understanding of Tom.
I caught up on the thread and thought someone suggested Tom might be, in christian understanding Adam, (rather than Christ) .. the Adam idea is interesting. Much about Adam is unknown too. He was charged with husbanding the earth. As far as we know, he too lived in a small area and stayed there. No need or desire for other places. He sired children and loved his wife and family. No worries.
Other than that nasty bit about a fruit, a tree, and a serpent.
-ksen
-ksen
LOL ... Yeah ... there is that. I was thinking about the time after that.
We are delaying our new chapter "Fog On The Barrow Downs" until Monday afternoon. So if you are not caught up on your reading, you now have more time!
The primary reason for the delay is that most of us are going to be off seeing and talking about the new Preview Trailer for The Two Towers that will be released today in theaters... - And many have Easter plans that will occupy them through the weekend.
To find out more about the trailer, or read and comment on the trailer as the reports come in, visit The New Hobbit Hole!
WOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
I've been out of town all week--can't wait to get home. My 6-year old daughter has been begging me to take her to see this movie. She INSISTS that the orcs won't scare her (she's seen photos of them). Her favorite movies are the Jurrasic park flicks and Godzilla. I just might have to take her...
Back to training...
Most of his movies have strong fantasy elements themselves. After all, what is he if not a Dragon, albiet nuclear-powered?
Again, no offense meant.
Fellowship of the Ring
CHAPTER VIII
Fog on the Barrow-Downs
Hullo friends! It’s Tuesday! – Time for our new chapter! Because of the trailer we're a little late, but that's just fine!
In this chapter Frodo and company finally leave Tom Bombadil's, setting out across the Barrow-downs for Bree. At first it is a pleasant day, but soon things take a bad turn...
He stood listening. He was suddenly aware that it was getting very cold, and that up here a wind was beginning to blow, an icy wind. A change was coming in the weather. The mist was flowing past him now in shreds and tatters. His breath was smoking, and the darkness was less near and thick. He looked up and saw with surprise that faint stars were appearing overhead amid the strands of hurrying cloud and fog. The wind began to hiss over the grass. He imagined suddenly that he caught a muffled cry, and he made towards it; and even as he went forward the mist was rolled up and thrust aside, and the starry sky was unveiled. A glance showed him that he was now facing southwards and was on a round hill-top, which he must have climbed from the north. Out of the east the biting wind was blowing. To his right there loomed against the westward stars a dark black shape. A great barrow stood there.
'Where are you?' he cried again, both angry and afraid.
'Here!' said a voice, deep and cold, that seemed to come out of the ground. 'I am waiting for you!'
Movie Pictures-General This chapter happened “off screen” in the movie… so no specific pictures …
And here is ecurbh’s Timeline if you would like to keep track of what day it is as we go!
Here is a Map of the Shire
And here is a Map of Middle-Earth So we don't get lost!
Index to thread… click link to find the start of each prior chapter discussion:
(First Five chapters are re-posts of highlights from the old forum)
Prologue and Chapter One – A Long-Expected Party
Chapter Two - The Shadow of the Past
Chapter Three – Three is Company … And also here – double post! ugh!
Chapter Four – A Shortcut to Mushrooms
Chapter Five – A Conspiracy Unmasked
End of re-posts
Chapter Six – The Old Forest
However, many tortured spirits fled from the Witch-kingdom of Angmar to seek shelter from the light of the Sun; demons who had become disembodied looking for other bodies in which their evil spirits could dwell. And so it was the Barrow-wights came into being, who animated the bones and jewelled armour of the ancient Kings of Men.
The Barrow-wights were shape-shifters that could crush the will of an unwary traveller. They appeared in the guise of a dark phantom whose eyes were luminous and cold. The voice was horrible, yet hypnotic; its skeletal voice had a touch like ice and a grip like the iron jaws of a trap. Once under the spell of the Undead, the victim surrendered their will and the Barrow-wight drew them into the treasure tombs on the downs. A dismal choir of tortured souls could be heard as, in the green half-light, the Barrow-wight laid his victim on a stone altar and bound them with gold chains. He draped them in the pale cloth and precious jewellery of the long-dead kings, then took their life with a sacrificial sword. Yet light was still the undoing of the Barrow-wight, for once a stone chamber was broken open, light would pour in and the Barrow-wight would fade like mist before the sun and he would perish.
Tolkien gives a comprehensive account of the great deeds and events of the three ages. He does not fully preclude the possibility of other entities arising outside the history he provides. The origin of the ancient Ents, for example, remains a mystery. Where and from what Tom Bombadil came I believe was meant to remain a mystery for ever ("forever" outside Tolkien-speak), adding to the mystery and depth of the world Tolkien creates.
Eventually, it would all become boring if Tolkien's written history covered all that transpired in the world he creates.
I just think it is fun to speculate about it.
BTW, I think The Silmarillion talks about guardian spirits from Yavanna, the Valar in charge of plant life, entering into the trees long before the Elves awaken. Obvious possibiities there involving the Ents.
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