The New Hobbit Hole

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole
Concerning Hobbits
The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.

[JenB]

Heehee, good point about ABM being a fantasy... so really, they've got it completely backwards?

I expect LotR to clean up in the minor technical awards, and Sir Ian to get his, but not best pic or best director.

[Overtaxed]

For what it's worth, TV Guide has LOTR for Best Picture.

[carton253]

Your rant is spot on! As if, somehow, Jackson's project is less important than ABM. I saw ABM, and I liked it. But I have no desire to see it again.

Actually, the darkhorse is Moulin Rouge. The first 35 minutes were terrible, the rest pretty terrific. So, Moulin Rouge just might win since it has the buzz.

What I would like the Academy to award the best picture to the best picture of the year. That would leave it between Lord of the Rings and Shrek.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

From the way they played fast and loose with the facts in ABM

Don't want to get into the Oscar fight too much, and as a LOTR fan I of course want it to win, but I think what is happenning to ABM is a PC smearjob! So they don't show all the offensive things he said in his insane rantings, what is signifigant about that? As far as saying the character was gay and they didn't show it, my feeling is that he is more gay than Frodo and Sam and a lot less so than Ian McKellen. So the actual person didn't want this part of his life on the screen? Good for him!

Would winning the Best Picture Oscar because of this kind of a smear campaign be the decent and honorable thing? Can you think of any of the positive characters in LOTR who would support tactics like this? I don't think so!
--/rant!

[carton253]

I agree with you about ABM... It is a smear job by Harvey Weinstein of Miramax.

I want Lord of the Rings to win, but if ABM or even Moulin Rouge wins I won't be upset. The problem with the Academy is they try to judge apples and oranges, and you can't.

Saving Private Ryan and Shakespeare in Love were both terrific movies... but the best picture of that year was A Beautiful Life. So, it's hard to judge between movies that are so different yet equally fabulous.

[Overtaxed]

Would winning the Best Picture Oscar because of this kind of a smear campaign be the decent and honorable thing? Can you think of any of the positive characters in LOTR who would support tactics like this?

I wasn't aware that the "PC smear campaign" was conducted by anyone associated with LOTR. That's the only way it would bring dishonor to LOTR.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

I wasn't aware that the "PC smear campaign" was conducted by anyone associated with LOTR. That's the only way it would bring dishonor to LOTR.

Well as has been said in another thread on FR, Weinstein is associated with everything, even LOTR indirectly. In any case to find that you have gained because another person has cheated, does not dishonor you, but it cheapens and reduces the value of what you have won.

[Overtaxed]

Oh, that Weinstein. But then again, I'm confused because I hear "right-wingers" complain that ABM glossed over the gay part to deceive the movie-going audience and the "gay faction" complain that the gay part was left out in order to please the movie-going audience. If Weinstein's involvement with LOTR is indirect, I don't see why everyone who worked on LOTR directly should be shamed because of his comments.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

I don't see why everyone who worked on LOTR directly should be shamed because of his comments.

I don't think I want to go any further here, but profiting from the cheating of another party is not the way I want to win something. If I am in a race, running third, and one of the first two fouls the other one and is disqualified, and I win because of that, it would not be the same as if I beat them.

[Penny1]

The one thing that I think glossing over some stuff in ABM should affect is the "Best Adapted Screenplay." I doubt that FotR will be able to beat out ABM for that, but IMO its faithfulness to the story and book compared to the omissions and changes to ABM should give FotR the win in that category.

IMHO, of course. ;)

[Penny1]

It's not a matter of being ashamed, I don't think, but it does cause one to question the worth of the win itself. It's kinda like the Australian who won the gold in Short Track because he was the only one still standing on his skates by the end of the race.

However, having seen our hobbits' response to the question about FotR winning the Best Picture Oscar, I don't think they would care in the slightest, lol...

[JenB]

Now see, the only movie in the running that I've even seen is LotR, so I can't really judge.... but the only movie I've seen that might deserve to beat LotR is not up for Best Picture (Memento). I am sorry about the smear campaign but I really took a dislike to ABM from what I've heard about it. Not my kinda film at all.

[Overtaxed]

The only way I would question the worth of the win would be if losing movie was outstanding and the winner sucked. If both movies were excellent (I can't speak to ABM, I never saw it) the winning film's win shouldn't be cheapened because of rumors. If the competition was that close to begin with, the decision could have gone either way without the rumors.

[carton253]

I really took a dislike to ABM from what I've heard about it.

Silly Hobbit, never judge a book by its cover :) I did and it took 20 years before I read Lord of the Rings, and how I missed out.

The rumors about ABM was started by Harvey Weinstein of Miramax, and promulgated by Matt Drudge, in an effort to boost "In the Bedroom" Oscar hopes. The Oscar adds millions of dollars to the bottom line.

Harvey Weinstein is associated with Lord of the Rings in a limited way. The movie started with Miramax. Weinstein put $20 million dollars in the movie before they shut the purse. Miramax wanted Jackson to cut costs by combining all three books into one picture. Jackson said, "what's the point of making the picture if you have to cut out the best parts out." He went shopping for another studio. Finally, and just when he had given up hope, New Line stepped up to the plate. The head of New Line only asked one question. If it's three books, why not make it three movies. Jackson was only going to make two movies. So, New Line bought the project from Miramax and paid Weinstein. Weinstein still wanted executive producer credits. He got them. If LOTR wins the award, Weinstein will get the Oscar (one of four - four executive producers) Whether he speaks or not, is another matter.

John Nash was on 60 Minutes last Sunday. This is a man who has overcome much. He is to be admired. He admitted that in his mental conditions during the '60's, he said unflattering things about Jewish people. He denies being gay. The part in the book (indecent exposure in a public bath) was unsubstantiated anyway.

[Overtaxed]

Whatever. It's not like I follow every PC smear political machination in Hollyweird. :)

[Rebelbase]

bump

[JenB]

Yeah, what you said. And I dislike Russell Crowe.

[Penny1]

This just makes me more and more convinced that certain elements in our society would try to prove that EVERYONE even remotely famous or well-known is gay if there was a way to do so.

[Penny1]

Ditto on Russell Crowe. He may be a fine actor, but his arrogance is a really big turnoff for me.

[Overtaxed]

You mean I have someone actually agreeing with me today? :)