Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
I've often wondered why this enthralling scene was only told by the junior Hobbits. Was it to strengthen their characters, or was it a throwback to the old way of storytelling, in which everything was told in the third person?
Any thoughts on my analysis of Denethor?
I think it was told by the junior hobbits because they had the direct connections to Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas.
It is very funny and rather dramatic not to know what happens... and then have Merry and Pippen at the door (smoking and sleeping)... It strengthens the love between the character and elevates the characters above the action.
Maybe Tolkien wasn't satisfied with his writing of the "action"... couldn't do it justice, etc., so reverted to narration. (That's what I'd do, but I'm no genius and he writes everything so well).
Faramir says something interesting about Gondor to Frodo... We are in a springless autumn.
By time we meet Denethor in the book, there is nothing left to him but a springless autumn. He is harsh, severe, and downright cruel. Boromir is dead... and with Boromir's death went the light of his life.
Tolkien leaves Denethor like that. Never tries to redeem him... or give us some reason to like him. (Whereas, Smeagol is the villian, at least Smeagol is funny and entertaining... and teeters for a moment on the edge of redemption)
It's funny... Tolkien writes Boromir with huge strengths and weaknesses. Faramir is for the most part seen only with strength. Denethor is seen failing, falling, and Tolkien does nothing to catch him.
PS - Can you tell me about your freep name...
I think that this might be it. As I remember, one of the ways they increased suspense in novels written as an exchange of letters, as Pride and Prejudice was in part, was to have characters anxiously awaiting news, then have a character or letter arrive, telling the story.
What we are waiting for is not what happens to Merry and Pippen for we know what happens. But it is fun to see how Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli will react when they finally see their friends again. (And Aragorn loved those hobbits)
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As for Denethor, I think it may be that Tolkien sometimes left characters for us to puzzle out without much help from him, sort of like the teacher saying 'I'll leave that for you as an assignment'. Or perhaps Tolkien disliked Denethor too much to explain him, but there were plenty of nastier characters who were given more depth (not Wormtongue, of course, so maybe it is the same thing with Denethor).
I like the fact that we meet Denethor in his descent into madness...
That's because he uses Theoden as contrast. Both men are leaders and warriros, past their prime, decieved into thinking they face a hopeless battle. Both have lost a son and the 'replacement' seems unsuitable. Neither likes Gandalf or the words he brings, and neither wishes to face the enemy that is coming.
The difference is, Theoden responds to Gandalf and is healed; he dies, but victoriously in battle, completely redeemed. Denethor will not listen and commits suicide. There are other parallels between the two but I'm sure you see my point! It's also hardly a coincidence, in my mind, that Eowyn marries Faramir.
Can't agree with this, Faramir was the heir to the Stewardship, and he would have made a better Steward than Denethor. I had hoped that Aragorn would keep him as Steward, since the title came into existence when the old kings ruled, after all, rather like the major domo (Mayor of the Palace) of the Frankish Merovingian Kings.
Perhaps it was felt that since they had virtually ruled Gondor, it would be uncomfortable to keep them in the capital. Of course this is all much more political than Tolkien ever was (just let us FR types arrange things in Aragorn's kingdom politically, right!)
That is why I like these discussions. I learn so much.
Doesn't Aragorn make Faramir Lord of Ithilien. (pardon my spelling)
Denethor seems to have been thoroughly discussed while I was still in bed! LOL
RE: Denethor... We have both missed that. I have been away too.
For what it is worth... I think Tolkien had Denethor self-destruct so that the reader would be able to celebrate Aragorn's return without grieving for a righteous, unfairly unseated Steward... Faramir would have made a good Steward, but he became an ally of Aragorn's.
You are right, as I remember that made two princes in the Kingdom, Faramir, Prince of Ithilien, along with Prince Imrahir (He was a minor character I rather regretted them leaving out of the cast, but if others can take Bombadil getting the boot, I can't protest losing Imrahir too much. Drat, drat drat!)
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