Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
I just finished my re-reading of The Two Towers and came upon a delightful and comic passage that I hope to heaven PJ includes. It is absolutely darling:
[Gollum is 'captured' while fishing in the secret pool at Henneth Annun and is brought before Faramir...]
A very miserable creature he looked, dripping and dank, smelling of fish (he still clutched on in his hand); his sparse locks were hanging like rank weed over his bony brows, his nose was snivelling.
"Loose us! Loose us!" he said. "The cord hurts us, yes it does, it hurts us and we've done nothing."
"Nothing?" said Faramir, looking at the wretched creature with a keen glance, but without any expression in his face either of anger, or pity, or wonder. "Nothing? Have you never done anything worthy of binding or of worse punishment? However, that is not for me to judge, happily. But tonight you have come where it is death to come. The fish of this pool are dearly bought."
Gollum dropped the fish from his hand. "Don't want fish," he said.
Teeheheee! I can't wait till the 18th!
Funny story! - So have you told all your friends to call and complain? - Are you calling in again yourself in different squeaky voices?
That is a funny part, I like it too!
9 days 06 hours 27 min!
LOL! That's my daughter's favorite part!! I hope PJ put it in.
We listened to an unabridged recording of TTT on our drive down South this summer. It was read by Rob Ingliss (I think it was Rob) and he was just wonderful. Hearing the Gollum/Smeagol discussions made me appreciate more just what this character has been through, and how hard it is for him to control himself. He is truly a tragic character and Howard Shore has hit the nail on the head with 'Gollum's Song' which I understand will play near the end of the credits for the movie, so y'all don't leave before the credits are done!
Don't let the 'Co-Redemptrix' and 'Living Ark' references get you frazzled. Mary is honored by Catholics for being willing to give her body to be the vessel (or ark, if you will) for the One who redeems us all. She was a willing participant in that activity, so she is called Co-Redemptrix because it was through her the Redeemer was able to be born here on Earth and thus use His Power to Save us!!
Have you heard any Medieval or Renaissance Christmas music? Check out Boston Camerata's "Renaissance Christmas", and just about anything by the group Anonymous 4. They are an a cappella group which does Christmas carols mostly in Latin, but sometimes in other languages, like their CD, "A Star in the East" which is 15th Century Hungarian carols! It is like listening to angels!!
You might also like John Rutter and his choir, the Cambridge Singers. They do a lot of Anglican church music that is wonderful!!
It didn't take long to go through the posts today. I'm sure things will build up REALLY fast to a week from Wed. When do we move, by the way? Are you just going to PING all of us to the new thread where we can pick up where we left off on the old one? With less SPAM, it is hoped! LOL!
IMO, there were likely plenty of other women who could have performed exactly like Mary did.
The 'Mother of God' title has always bugged me too.
True, but God didn't choose them, did He? Mediatrix is just a way of saying Mary is someone who will intercede for you with her Son when you pray. If you're not confortable asking God directly for something, or you want some help in convincing Him, ask Mary to help out. After all, she's the one who gently prodded Jesus to turn the water into wine at the Wedding Feast of Cana! :)
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