The New Hobbit Hole

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole
Concerning Hobbits
The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.

[HairOfTheDog]

Oh I would love to be on a jury... It would be such an interesting experience! - I have only been drawn once, and went to the courthouse every morning for a week, but each day they seated a jury before my name was ever called. So - an hour later they sent me home (or to work).

If I had a chance, I would do it. Most trials are short, they aren't all OJ....

[2Jedismom]

Oh I would love it too! I really would! When I get these boys just a little older , I'll sure want to do it. I wish I could tell them that! "Just give me about 10 more years, and I'll be happy to show up!"

[HairOfTheDog]

But you may never get called again! - this could be your only chance!

[2Jedismom]

Oh, undoubtedly many "only chances" pass me by during this time of my life. That's ok. ;-)

[doubled]

Just a question about the movie and the trailer. In Moria, if I remember correctly, we see the orcs crawling all over the walls and roof. Something I think PJ added on his own. The trailer for TT shows the orcs placing ladders against the walls of Helms Depth. Why? If the orcs can crawl all over walls and such why don't the just scale the walls and hills of Helms Depth? The only excuse I can think of is that these are the Urak Hai and they are heavier and thus not as capable of crawling up the walls, but I can't imagine Sauraman breding it out of them.

[Overtaxed]

I got a case one time...finished in one day. The only problem was that you had to pay attention while a couple of (ick) lawyers were yakking.

[HairOfTheDog]

I think maybe that was an addition of Jackson's that he was hoping you wouldn't remember!

[Corin Stormhands]

I think maybe that was an addition of Jackson's that he was hoping you wouldn't remember!

Jackson should at least be a lurker on these threads...

[2Jedismom]

From the Two Towers, the chapter "Helm's Deep":

"Against the Deeping Wall the hosts of Isengard roared like a sea. Orcs and hillmen swarmed about its feet from end to end. Ropes with grappling hooks were hurled back. Hundreds of long ladders were lifted up. Many were cast down in ruin, but many more replaced them, and Orcs sprang up them like apes in the dark forests of the South."

When I see what PJ did with this scene...it looks pretty much how I always imagined it!

[2Jedismom]

And here mentioned again:

Devilry of Saruman!' cried Aragorn. 'They have crept in the culvert again, while we talked, and they have lit the fire of Orthanc beneath our feet. Elendil, Elendil!' he shouted, as he leaped down into the breach; but even as he did so a hundred ladders were raised against the battlements.

And here again:

I will ride with you,' said Aragorn. Taking his leave, he returned to the walls, and passed round all their circuit, enheartening the men, and lending aid wherever the assault was hot. Legolas went with him. Blasts of fire leaped up from below shaking the stones. Grappling-hooks were hurled, and ladders raised. Again and again the Orcs gained the summit of the outer wall, and again the defenders cast them down.

[2Jedismom]

In Moria, if I remember correctly, we see the orcs crawling all over the walls and roof.

Oops! I missed this very important part of your question! LOL I thought the question was concerning whether or not there were ladders in the book! LOL! I beg your pardon. And as that lady used to say on Sat. Night Live..."Never Mind."

[HairOfTheDog]

Yes - I think Helms Deep looks great in the snippets of film we have seen. Very much like I imagined the scene too... So everyone just forget about any orc wall-climbing you may have seen... or maybe Jackson's Moria orcs are a unique mutation of wall climbers, and they are the only ones that can do that. However you wish to file it in your own mind so that it works!

[JenB]

Good day! I hope you don't get chosen for jury duty but having kids is not necessarily an out. My mom got picked two years ago, even though she was homeschool 6 at the time and has a toddler with disabilities. Some jury duty people are more cooperative than others, I guess.

She did say that she picked up a good way not to get chosen from the women ahead of her; this girl simply wore a blank expression and asked that every single question be repeated. Maybe acting like a ditz could help you, if you could manage to pull it off?

[2Jedismom]

I guess I have always thought that the orcs in Moria are a different sort than the ones from Isengard. And the movie makes them look smaller, more like what I think a "goblin" ought to look like. Perhaps that's why they can scale walls.

[2Jedismom]

I considered hauling the boys up there with me if they make me come. Kinda like "Here I am! Ready to do my civic duty! I assume you provide childcare?"

[HairOfTheDog]

I am shocked that both of you seem to think it is OK to shirk your civic duty to report for jury duty. Some Americans you turned out to be... Shame on you!

< /guilt trip >

[2Jedismom]

Oh ok, I'll do it. And I appreciate your offer to watch the boys while I do it...(you were offering, weren't you?) I'll fax you their schedule and Matthew's lesson plans asap.

[wink]JK ;-)

[JenB]

Hey, I'd do jury duty, if I got summoned. I haven't been yet, though. It's 2JM who shouldn't have to go.

[2Jedismom]

Wow! We're close to a double Zero! Where's Carton?

[2Jedismom]

Am I going to get it? Or # 01? I like #01 because it's a fresh new page!